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Old 05-07-2013, 08:27 AM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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Default Timing Cover

I'm halfway through disassembly on a laundry list of projects on my '77 FJ40 and have a couple of questions/want to bounce ideas of people who have done this before!

Here is what I'm doing:
Timing Cover Gasket
Front Seal
Thermostat
Coolant System flush

I pulled it all apart to where my next step is opening up the timing cover (that harmonic balancer nut is a PAIN!). I had a pretty good oil leak and things are pretty oily.
Question: Should I use some type of engine cleaner/degreaser before I open things up? Can I use carb or break cleaner inside this area after it's open?

My next step will then be to put it all together and hope it doesn't leak anymore. I'm not doing the plate Gasket.
Question: Is it a mistake not to do the plate gasket when I have it torn down this far? I can't say for sure if it's leaking or not, it was too messy to tell where the leak was coming from.

Question: I got some Toyota FIPG, should I coat the cork gasket with this or only the lower two bolts? Or get something else completely for both tasks?

Everything else I think I can stumble through. This is by far the biggest wrenching job I've ever done. I have the Haynes manual but I'm definitely a single mechanic.

PS, if anyone has the hose from the smog pump to air cleaner, I'm in need! Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2013, 08:55 AM
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RicardoJM RicardoJM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
I'm halfway through disassembly on a laundry list of projects on my '77 FJ40 and have a couple of questions/want to bounce ideas of people who have done this before!

Here is what I'm doing:
Timing Cover Gasket
Front Seal
Thermostat
Coolant System flush

I pulled it all apart to where my next step is opening up the timing cover (that harmonic balancer nut is a PAIN!). I had a pretty good oil leak and things are pretty oily.
Question: Should I use some type of engine cleaner/degreaser before I open things up? Can I use carb or break cleaner inside this area after it's open?
Befor or after, either way will work. It is probably easiest to clean it up as much as you can before removing the cover. If it is typical cruiser gunga, a scraper will peel most of it right off. Then hit it up with brake clean and a rag should get you back to clean.

I know you already have it torn down a ways, and this may not apply for you... but ... if you clean it down and then run it, you should be able to confirm it is your front seal, or timing cover gasket, or two lower bolts, or oil making its way down from the filter or oil making its way down from the valve cover or oil from the oil pan gasket. Of course, it yours is like mine - a combination of all the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
My next step will then be to put it all together and hope it doesn't leak anymore. I'm not doing the plate Gasket.
Question: Is it a mistake not to do the plate gasket when I have it torn down this far? I can't say for sure if it's leaking or not, it was too messy to tell where the leak was coming from.
It could be the plate, once you have the cover off, you need to check the oil squirter to insure it is not tightened up to the point the plate is bowing out. If the squirter is not too tight, you should not be leaking from the plate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
Question: I got some Toyota FIPG, should I coat the cork gasket with this or only the lower two bolts? Or get something else completely for both tasks?
FIPG is a good call. Use it on the gasket as well as the lower bolts. The gasket is thin and you will need to be careful as you tighten the cover. You want to get a good seal and it is fine line between where you need to be and what it takes to split that gasket. DAMHIK.

Also, keep track of which bolts come out of which holes. They are not all the same length. The FSM has a diagram of which goes where if you happen to lose track of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
Everything else I think I can stumble through. This is by far the biggest wrenching job I've ever done. I have the Haynes manual but I'm definitely a single mechanic.

PS, if anyone has the hose from the smog pump to air cleaner, I'm in need! Thanks!
Sounds like you are on the right track. You will be happy when you are no longer leaking oil from the front.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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Good to hear. I guess I was mainly looking for reassurance as I feel I'm in a bit over my skill level.

Will I be able to see if the oil squirter is in too far and thus pushing the plate from the block? That is, will this be pretty obvious once the timing cover is off and the gunky oily mess is all cleaned up?
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:29 AM
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RicardoJM RicardoJM is offline
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Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
Good to hear. I guess I was mainly looking for reassurance as I feel I'm in a bit over my skill level.

Will I be able to see if the oil squirter is in too far and thus pushing the plate from the block? That is, will this be pretty obvious once the timing cover is off and the gunky oily mess is all cleaned up?
I wouldn't characterize it as pretty obvious, i.e. you wouldn't necessarily see a definative bow. The oil squirter screws in and the bow is caused when it gets screwed in too far. When you get in there, take a close look. Do you know if the plate has ever been removed? If it has never been off, you are probably just fine. IIRC to get plate off, you will have to remove the timing gears.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:32 AM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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I would guess that it hasn't been off, but I no nothing of the history of the engine.

I guess I'll take a close look, if I can't tell I'll assume it's ok. If it still leaks I'll dig back into it in the future!
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:05 AM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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Ok, slowly getting things back together. I was frustrated by the fact that I had to remove the water pump to get the top timing cover bolt off. I tried a screw driver but it was stripping. argh.

But I got it off, all looked ok underneath, there was a LOT of an RTV like substance around the plate. I decided not to dig into it at this time. I know that's probably where the leak is and that it's still going to leak, I just don't have the know-how to tear in that deep.

So, I started to button it all back up. 2 things:
1. Why do I have to put the pully back on before torquing down the cover bolts? I did it because it's recommended, but I don't understand the need.

2. I don't have a torque wrench that could possibly fit behind the pulley. So I got them "snug" but not too tight. Good enough?

Now to get a new water pump gasket and probably some new hoses and see if this project at least REDUCED the leaking.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:39 AM
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RicardoJM RicardoJM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
Ok, slowly getting things back together. I was frustrated by the fact that I had to remove the water pump to get the top timing cover bolt off. I tried a screw driver but it was stripping. argh.

But I got it off, all looked ok underneath, there was a LOT of an RTV like substance around the plate. I decided not to dig into it at this time. I know that's probably where the leak is and that it's still going to leak, I just don't have the know-how to tear in that deep.

So, I started to button it all back up. 2 things:
1. Why do I have to put the pully back on before torquing down the cover bolts? I did it because it's recommended, but I don't understand the need.
They recommend this sequence so that the seal can center around the harmonic balancer shaft. With the cover bolts loose, there is some float for the seal and cover as you install the harmonic balancer. If you were to tighten up the cover bolts and the seal was just a tad off center - it would result in pre-mature wearing of the seal and a leak.

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Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
2. I don't have a torque wrench that could possibly fit behind the pulley. So I got them "snug" but not too tight. Good enough?
The tourque spec for these is inch pounds, you can always tighten it up a bit if needed. Using FIPG, you are likely just where you need to be with "snug".

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Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
Now to get a new water pump gasket and probably some new hoses and see if this project at least REDUCED the leaking.
Get it buttoned up, run it and then monitor it closely. All the new parts you put in should be leak free.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:49 AM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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Thanks again for your input! I'm having a blast playing grease monkey but there are some times when I just stare at it going, "okay, now what?"

I often fall back to what my dad would do in a given situation as he is pretty much the smartest guy I know.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:40 PM
Firetacoma Firetacoma is offline
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Water pump re-install: try to find a gasket (nobody local carries it) or install with a nice coat of FIPG?
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2013, 12:18 AM
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Rzeppa Rzeppa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firetacoma View Post
I'm halfway through disassembly on a laundry list of projects on my '77 FJ40 and have a couple of questions/want to bounce ideas of people who have done this before!

Here is what I'm doing:
Timing Cover Gasket
Front Seal
Thermostat
Coolant System flush

I pulled it all apart to where my next step is opening up the timing cover (that harmonic balancer nut is a PAIN!). I had a pretty good oil leak and things are pretty oily.
Question: Should I use some type of engine cleaner/degreaser before I open things up? Can I use carb or break cleaner inside this area after it's open?

My next step will then be to put it all together and hope it doesn't leak anymore. I'm not doing the plate Gasket.
Question: Is it a mistake not to do the plate gasket when I have it torn down this far? I can't say for sure if it's leaking or not, it was too messy to tell where the leak was coming from.

Question: I got some Toyota FIPG, should I coat the cork gasket with this or only the lower two bolts? Or get something else completely for both tasks?

Everything else I think I can stumble through. This is by far the biggest wrenching job I've ever done. I have the Haynes manual but I'm definitely a single mechanic.

PS, if anyone has the hose from the smog pump to air cleaner, I'm in need! Thanks!
Yes, clean things up as much as possible before opening the internals to the world. Always. Once it is open, do NOT use spray on carb or brake cleaner. Use rags or shop towels and be patient. Mineral spirits or kerosene on your rags or shop towels is acceptable and called for in the manuals.

I do not know what you mean by "plate gasket". If you mean "Timing Gear Cover Gasket" then yes you MUST use a new cork gasket. They are dirt cheap and not using a new one is...wrong. If you are referring to the cover plate on the front of the engine, there is NEVER any reason to dick around with it unless you are rebuilding the entire motor.

There is NO PLACE for FIPG on our old FJ40s. That's fine on your mother's 2012 4Runner oil pan, but not our old iron. DO NOT USE FIPG on old FJ40s. Regular RTV (I like Permatex Ultra Seal) in a thin coat on either side of cork or paper gaskets on our old iron will help ease removal down the road. Except for the two lower bolt threads on the timing gear cover, and the four corners of the oil pan, no sealant whatsoever is needed for F or 2F engines.

Take that FIPG and give it to someone with a newer Toyota, you do not need it for our old iron. It is bad Juju.
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