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  #31  
Old 05-15-2013, 05:46 AM
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Internet wisdom says a steering stabilizer is a band-aid and that may be true in a way. But their job is to damp oscillations and so that argument would have to be made about the rest of your shocks, too. Maybe needing two of them is a band-aid, but upgrading or changing the way yours works is just dialing in your steering IMHO. We don't think twice about matching the suspension springs and shocks, but we believe that lifting the suspension, adding a bunch of unsprung and sprung weight should not have an effect on the steering?
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:26 AM
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This is the best video I have found of the forces involved. In the first part of the video you can see what moves prior to the impact.



I had a wheel spacer that wasn't true and it was enough to get everything shaking. On the Jeeps, the most common cause is the panhard rod mount on the frame side gets worn out (after a little wheeling). There are quite a few videos that show that factory stock has issues though.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloCruise View Post
Do you mean OME springs? Sorry, not familiar with your rig...
Sorry, yes and I edited the typo in my post.
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nakman View Post
Thinking through your logic Barry, if lean contributed to alignment then with cruiser lean your rear axle would stick out towards the right as you drove down the highway, in a more crab-like stance. So you'd have to turn to the right just a little bit to compensate... have you notice you need to hold the wheel to the right a little more? Also how accurately could you measure wheelbase? If your theory holds it should be shorter on the DS.
Other way around. A lean left (drivers) pushes the axles away from center on that side. So driver's side would be something like 91" and passenger side would be 90". Just for fun, I'll put a tape on it tonight and see where it really is.

What I will never understand, is why the cruiser lean starts in the first place, and defies opposite lean when you swap springs R to L. I have read all the threads on various theories. The lean, is the whole reason I considered coilovers in the first place. We all know it will come back, so being able to dial "up" the driver side as it sags seems like a huge bonus.

Marco, I don't have a steering stabilizer. I haven't run one since I did the axle swap and never had an issue until last May. It's a total band-aid, but I agree I need to figure out a way to add one when I fix this.
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treerootCO View Post
On the Jeeps, the most common cause is the panhard rod mount on the frame side gets worn out (after a little wheeling). There are quite a few videos that show that factory stock has issues though.
This was the issue I had on my 80 - not so much a worn out mount but an under-tightened bolt instead. The result was the same, and the death wobble was severe. Once I got the bolt tightened to spec, I haven't seen it since. But this is not relevant for an FJ40 discussion...

Data point: My 40 has a pretty severe case of Cruiser lean, but I don't have any death wobble to speak of. Other than a very slight shutter around 30mph (which I think is pinion related), I can hit pretty much any speed on my 40 without feeling like the steering is off. It wanders and there's a bit of bump steer, but nothing shaky. OME springs and shocks and OME steering stabilizer - all about 5 years old.
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by treerootCO View Post
This is the best video I have found of the forces involved. In the first part of the video you can see what moves prior to the impact.
That's pretty much it. I suspect that if I mounted a gopro, I would see the same kind of stuff. I can tell you I don't have the balls to keep driving it knowing that problem will happen again though. It violently shakes the truck, and actually causes my throttle linkage to smack the master cylinder. I may or may not have a motor mount issue as well. Need to verify that when I pull the thing apart. I keep looking for a frame crack at the springs mounts, especially because I have that strange popping noise when my front springs articulate. I should have time to pull the springs this weekend so I can get a good look for worn bushings or broken leaves/hangers.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacket View Post

Data point: My 40 has a pretty severe case of Cruiser lean, OME springs 5 years old.
Bingo! And that's why I hate dropping $1,300 for a "fix" that only lasts a couple years. My OME did the same thing, and it was extremely frustrating that the only fix was to lower the high side with a shim.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:11 AM
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Dave has a point.... maybe not so much of a band aid.

What I noticed was that when i went through every component and took all teh slop out o it the situation got better, but it never was resolved. that stabilizer made it so the wobble wouldn't resonate which "fixed" it.

Maybe the reason it didn't do it before is because everything was "perfect" now that it's not it can start then quickly runs out of control. maybe add one and just see? I wouldn't say it was worth my effort to rebuild everything only to find that 99% of the crap i went through was perfectly servicable and within specified wear limits.

They did come with steering stabilizers from the factory..
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rover67 View Post
...They did come with steering stabilizers from the factory..
Bingo. I don't think it's as much of a Band-Aid as internet wisdom would have us believe...having said that mine seems fine so far after my power steering conversion.
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
Internet wisdom says a steering stabilizer is a band-aid and that may be true in a way. But their job is to damp oscillations and so that argument would have to be made about the rest of your shocks, too. Maybe needing two of them is a band-aid, but upgrading or changing the way yours works is just dialing in your steering IMHO. We don't think twice about matching the suspension springs and shocks, but we believe that lifting the suspension, adding a bunch of unsprung and sprung weight should not have an effect on the steering?
I plan to add one back in when I can figure out the correct length so that it IS dialed in. I have a 40 frame, 60 box, 70 axle, and hybrid link. Standard one won't work, I don't think.

Now, to the second part of your point, this truck has been built like this since 2006. I haven't been monkeying with unsprung weight or altering lift. I have driven it from NC to CO twice...never had an issue like this develop until last year. Only thing that has changed is wear, and sag. Logic would say take wear and sag back out, and damper is not "needed" but still desired for off-road dampening.
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