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  #21  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:41 PM
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Keith Keith is offline
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Originally Posted by corsair23 View Post
Dang....Fingers crossed folks

Is it just me or does it seem stupid, yeah stupid, that the minute they get a report of a fire like this that the don't immediately fire up a couple tankers etc to go try to douse the thing? If I understand it correctly the fire started Tuesday early afternoon but it wasn't until Wednesday late morning, almost noon, before they started air support. WTF? If you catch it when it is small, maybe one or two passes by those big boys and it is out, or at least somewhat beaten down.

I'm pretty sure the tankers were in Colorado ready to go...We were at Ft Logan yesterday for soccer and it was pretty much constant tanker flybys heading to and from the fire....
A friend was on the first engine company on scene at the 4-mile Canyon fire a couple summers ago. They had to reposition 8 times in the first 2 hours... Because they kept getting over-run.... So, even when these fires are "small", they are actually quite large and more than you can take out w/ a couple runs from a tanker.
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  #22  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:43 PM
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Just wait until all those brown trees up the I-70 corridor catch fire. That's going to be awful.
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  #23  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:49 PM
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This is so awful. Really makes one think about how easy it can be to lose almost everything.

Hoping that those of you in the area are safe, and for those that lost their homes, truly sorry.

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  #24  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by black95 View Post
Just wait until all those brown trees up the I-70 corridor catch fire. That's going to be awful.
Its not if but when. And its really the only way the forest will recover. But yes its going to be bad at a whole new level.
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  #25  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair23 View Post
Dang....Fingers crossed folks

Is it just me or does it seem stupid, yeah stupid, that the minute they get a report of a fire like this that the don't immediately fire up a couple tankers etc to go try to douse the thing? If I understand it correctly the fire started Tuesday early afternoon but it wasn't until Wednesday late morning, almost noon, before they started air support. WTF? If you catch it when it is small, maybe one or two passes by those big boys and it is out, or at least somewhat beaten down.

I'm pretty sure the tankers were in Colorado ready to go...We were at Ft Logan yesterday for soccer and it was pretty much constant tanker flybys heading to and from the fire....
Yeah, I'm with you on this. It's not like we're going to have a summer up here without a fire for awhile. SO, since it's a "when" and not an "if", it seems like there should be massive resources on standby, ready to execute an aggressive response in the first critical hours after the first reports.
But, all that costs a lot of money.
But it does seem like if there were a large fleet of tankers or "slushy bombers" on standby all summer long, there could be six or seven of them deployed immediately to hit the fire hard while it's still "small". If there's a twenty or thirty acre fire it would seem like a fast overwhelming response would be well worth the money to put it out fast.
Now, I'm no expert on fire fighting. But it does seem like these things keep coming as a surprise that leaves everyone scrambling to muster resources from all over the place. Seems like there should be "Fire Fighting Air-Bases" up and down the state. Or a fire fighter squadron at the air-force base in the springs.
Now, I'm not trying to be critical of anyone. I know that those fire fighters out there are busting their asses to get these things under control. I'm just saying that perhaps it's time to start rethinking how we look at this problem. And there may be some things that I don't know about. But it does seem like it's inevitable and unavoidable.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the people effected by this. It's unimaginable the feelings that they must be going through.
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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The sheriff here indicated that he'd never seen the MAFFs deployed so fast, but it was still 2 days into the fire.

Not to politicize this thread too much, but this is an interesting observation of the voting of money for air defense of fires in Colorado:

http://coloradopeakpolitics.com/2013...er-dems-didnt/

There will be more fires in this state - guaranteed. When does our legislature start acting like it?
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2013, 12:42 PM
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Well... you certainly politicized it about as much as could be done. Of equal concern is Federal funding and USFS funding, the state cannot bear all the burden. Small government has its merits... but in this area I would prefer big government.

A coworker was in Denver on Tuesday and got the reverse 911. She got the EVAC NOW!!!! reverse 911 on the train hurrying south to parking. Her husband grabbed what he could and bugged out ASAP.

She found out yesterday, total loss. Chickens and one cat that refused to be caught are lost.

I'm working remote, thankfully I have a boss who doesn't want to see a repeat of what happened with my coworker. Several fires in the area, one lightning, one human caused, thankfully far enough away. It takes NO time to blow up under these conditions.

We were in St. Louis when the fire broke out up here more than a week ago, and kinda freaked - mandatory evac less than a mile from our house. Stuff is stuff, but we have 10 animals to evac too.

When they found that couple in Black Forest, they were in the garage with car doors open and car packed. They had called a friend at 4:20PM, saw a glow over the hill and said they were leaving. Called again at 5:00PM, friend heard popping and cracking in the background. Last call made.

We are gonna practice an emergency load up and time everything. Come up with a list like Drew's with a decision tree, worst case seconds to get out, best case pre-evac.

I saw pics of evac'd horses with phone numbers painted on their side. Hadn't thought of that, good idea. Especially if you only have time to turn them loose on their own.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shotshell View Post
there should be massive resources on standby, ready to execute an aggressive response in the first critical hours after the first reports.
Remember that the USFS alone manages 293 million acres and last year 9.1 million of those were burned in wildfires. We're talking about a dozen or more very large states and wildfires are not even limited to just the west, they happen all over the country. Resources are prioritized since it costs a ton just to have the plane sitting on the tarmac regardless if its used. So the ones they do have are run around the clock and they augment where they can. There is a practical limit to what we can afford to do and since most people don't live in high risk locations how much should we spend on equipment when one day responses might limit damage for 99.9999% of people? Should we spend as much as it takes to limit wildfires to zero structures lost? Do people who live in high risk places have to assume a disproportionate amount of the cost for such a level? I dunno, obviously it would be nice to have every rural and semi-urban forest fire department have access to a slurry bombers, but that is not gonna happen. As these fires encroach more and more on major towns, I mean the Springs has been <this> close to the town itself being overrun last year and now again, maybe the available equipment is inadequate. :-/
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:36 PM
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A dilemma for land managers:
-Regular fires are good for thinning out forests and preventing overgrowth.
-People don't like fires.
-A history of subduing fires has caused excessive overgrowth to the extent that fires today burn hotter, faster, and are more destructive than historical fires.
-People live in forested and grassy plains areas where fire fighting resources are not readily available.

This fire is truly heartbreaking
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2013, 01:37 PM
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Bill - sorry to hear about your friend's loss.

Putting a trailer near your house (if allowed/practical) and having a written list of what to take is a good minimum step. If you're already barred from entering your neighborhood, you're out of luck anyway, however. I have CDs and DVDs of photos at my office in a drawer - far away from my house.

We got the reverse 911 call on our cell phones a full day after the mandatory evac - about 1pm on Wed. I also got the email a day late. Those were useless.

Anyway - neighbors calling neighbors is the best way to get the word out. You could not see the fire from our house, although the fire was less than a mile away. We called a neighbor who had no idea there was a fire. Our whole neighborhood bailed out several hours in advance of the mandatory evac. notice. Oddly, my AAA homeowners agent called at 3pm Tues, less than 2 hrs. after the fire was spotted and asked if they could help.
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