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  #21  
Old 07-24-2013, 09:06 AM
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In Telluride I had to pull off of the road because the fuel pump was cavitating and the engine quit. I suspected excess pressure in the tank as the culprit due to a faulty evap system (this is before I realized it was the fuel boiling) so I unscrewed the gas cap. The pressure blew it out of my hand and a few feet away in the parking lot. The vapor coming out of the filler neck was ridiculous. It continued to come out so fast it scared me so i got the dogs out of the car and we sat down 50 feet away or so to let it do it's thing. I swear it didn't slow down for 10 minutes. eventually I replaced the cap and drove it to a gas station where topping off with cold fuel fixed it.

I think keeping the fuel system closed up where the pressure can build is really the only way it'll work at high altitude and high temperatures. Even though our older fuel systems were not designed to work like that.

http://www.tn.gov/agriculture/public...1_E10fuels.pdf
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2013, 09:11 AM
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Thanks for the link to the Tennessee gov't report - it reminds me that my Toyota runs poorly due to gov't regs, and not the way it was engineered. I long for the days (15 years ago) when I could buy 100% gas and it would not vapor lock and hot-soak and misbehave.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDH33 View Post
I'm going to check the hoses and charcoal canister. Also found a couple of threads on MUD suggesting switching the tubes on the canister to create constant vent.
In the 80 section?
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
Thanks for the link to the Tennessee gov't report - it reminds me that my Toyota runs poorly due to gov't regs, and not the way it was engineered. I long for the days (15 years ago) when I could buy 100% gas and it would not vapor lock and hot-soak and misbehave.
X2 on that good buddy. Even when they used MTBE instead of EtOH. I 100% blame my stall on the steepest section of Radical Hill yesterday on the EtOH.
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  #25  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:42 AM
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What's odd though is that from 4% EtOH on up to 20%, the vapor pressure doesn't change much. So the change from 10% to 15% shouldn't make much difference other than the loss of energy density (lower mpg).
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 60wag View Post
What's odd though is that from 4% EtOH on up to 20%, the vapor pressure doesn't change much. So the change from 10% to 15% shouldn't make much difference other than the loss of energy density (lower mpg).
I also thought that was interesting. Makes sense too.

Higher EtOH % will eventually start to be more corrosive on fuel systems not designed for it though.
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2013, 10:35 AM
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My favorite is the Ducati lawsuit:
http://www.ducatinewstoday.com/2010/...lty-gas-tanks/

As reported by the web site Ducati News, the lawsuit alledged that

"The plastic used in Plaintiff and class members’ fuel tanks is incompatible with the motorcycles’ fuel, which causes the tanks to rapidly degrade and deform and leads to a number of unsafe conditions. Among other things, as the plastic degrades and deforms, the fuel tanks interfere with the full range of steering, leak fuel onto the engine, and destabilize the motorcycle’s weight distribution – often to the point that the motorcycle cannot be safely operated after only a few thousand miles of use."

The tanks manufactured by Acerbis Plastics are also specified as original equipment in other European brand motorcycles such as Aprilia and KTM.

It is not clear what is causing the issue although there is speculation that small proportions of ethanol blended with gasoline in the United States may be the culprit.




I saw it in my small engines first. The hoses collapse and the little bits get stuck in the engine. If you let it go long enough, the hose falls apart.

Napa carries a new red hose that is rated for ethanol. The parts guy mentioned to me that Napa made the change to prevent being sued for fuel line failures.



Gates has a greenshield:
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?br...cation_id=5348

I fast forwarded it to the Ethanol part:
http://youtu.be/jAg8lBJf1ZE?t=3m10s

GoodYear lists marine applications and hoses for E85 pumps:
http://www.goodyearep.com/search.aspx?q=ethanol
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Last edited by treerootCO; 07-26-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2013, 11:13 AM
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I've fixed a lot of lawn mowers that use un-rated fuel line - it's not even SAE 30R7 rated. It's typically brittle and full of cracks. Leave it to lawn mower makers to use a fuel hose that barely even qualifies as fuel hose.

To me, this stuff is a fire risk when the hose rots through after 5-10 years and fuel placed in the mower simply runs out on the ground.

Pep Boys sells 'R7' and 'R9' by the foot and the R9 is a lot more expensive, but it's diesel compliant and obviously better stuff for any gas application.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2013, 02:21 PM
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That's funny you highlight KTM, Mike, as we're routinely dumping little black flecks out of the bottom of the carbs. I wonder if instead of adding stabilizer for the winter would I be better off just draining the tank and storing it empty for 3-4 months? or would it make much of a difference...

I'm going to look for a new fuel hose though, where do they sell that Gates stuff? cool video.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60wag View Post
What's odd though is that from 4% EtOH on up to 20%, the vapor pressure doesn't change much. So the change from 10% to 15% shouldn't make much difference other than the loss of energy density (lower mpg).
Do you have a chart somewhere you could turn us on to? I would expect a linear change in vapor pressure as the EtOH concentration is increased. It's a pretty darn light little molecule compared to Heptane. FWIW, I run premium in my 60 since I had the head decked.

One other interesting tidbit. 60s recirculate the return back to the pump, so it all stays in the engine bay where it's hot. My 76 recirculates back to the tank where it should be a lot cooler.
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