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  #221  
Old 08-24-2014, 06:53 AM
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subzali subzali is offline
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That is so awesome. Nice looking 40 Mike!
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  #222  
Old 08-26-2014, 09:53 PM
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Thanks Matt!

So now that the thrash is done.
Time to tune.

It won't run unless its half choked and I know that won't pass smog...now I am in no hurry here..I am going to try to learn cause I am a carb moron
...

So monday I started about the business of troubleshooting the idle...

All indications were vacuum leak..choke to idle..missing..unburned fuel..or idle circuit problem...I know the solenoid works..it clicks with key..

Ether around manifold and carb base made it stumble and almost die (thought ether would do opposite but it didn't)

So I torqued all manifold bolts..they were a touch loose..

That actually yielded a vacuum improvement..it went from just under 14 and dropping with stumble to just over 15 and stumble..

Put a turn on carb studs and 3 of 4 tightened a bit.

The 4th just spun..right off the bat..
So either stud broke or manifold stripped...
It was the latter..

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So I did some research..seems to repair threads best option (short of tig welding hole and redrilling) was a time-sert..I had used helicoils before but apparently this timesert deal was more dependable...

So I called around and found a 8mmx1.25 kit at triple a metric..
Drove fown and picked it up this afternoon...spendy but quality..
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Its a 4 step process..
The kit came with:
1. Drill bit
2. Countersink bit
3. Tap
4. Timesert insertion tool.
5. A few timeserts.

So I drilled the hole with the bit stopping .25 inches from bottom of hole as prescribed and measured.

Then countersuck the top..their bit is built to countersink a precise amount..but I stopped a bit short anyway cause I was scared..lol

Then tapped it again .25 inches from bottom.

Yielding this
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I had previously stuffed a towel and duck tape in the hole but removed it here.

Then using their insertion tool as instructed I inserted the timesert "as it will get hard on last two threads then easy as it is fully inserted"

That yielded this...
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I re stuffed the hole cause I was going to file down the tiny ridge that was proud of the manifold..then I called mike and he said "why not just use that countersink bit on the insulator and remove a tiny bit"

Man that was smart..

Anyway..finished up mounting carb tonight

It definitely is improved.... after some gyrations with screws...I can now idle off choke..
But its real rough at about 850..smooth only higher..
Still smell unburned fuel...and it is still coming out main nozzle at idle
So will continue on that..
Its fun..for now..been reading a lot..
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Last edited by simps80; 09-01-2014 at 11:03 PM.
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  #223  
Old 08-26-2014, 10:36 PM
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Ok that last post was too tech heavy...
So after that...
I finished off the night with a sweet score from the rally...
A new inner tcase shifter boot...nla and no one sells a repop...

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But even better I upgraded from ghetto ebay manual to private reserve de la Ige mint ash manual.

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Thank you Ige!!
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  #224  
Old 08-29-2014, 10:56 PM
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Oh, remember when I mentioned about potentially overtightening the bolts that hold the manifolds to each other, that the intake is aluminum and if you overtighten it can strip?

I forgot to mention the carb studs. BTDT Same thing. I got a helicoil in one of my manifolds (forget which rig).
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  #225  
Old 08-30-2014, 01:10 PM
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I'm surprised mike didn't talk you into a High po f manifold with the runners
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  #226  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesintl View Post
I'm surprised mike didn't talk you into a High po f manifold with the runners
Kinda wish I had...that and a header after this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeppa View Post
Oh, remember when I mentioned about potentially overtightening the bolts that hold the manifolds to each other, that the intake is aluminum and if you overtighten it can strip?

I forgot to mention the carb studs. BTDT Same thing. I got a helicoil in one of my manifolds (forget which rig).
I heeded that advice....more on that in a minute

So.....
I just now got the idle problem fixed.
WARNING MAY BE BORING TO EXPERIENCED CARB PEOPLE


It was 2 (maybe 3) separate problems.

I think I read every single "wont idle" thread on mud.
It is funny to see the thought process of some of the authorities on mud evolve over time. And frustrating how there are not very many pictures explaining what the heavy hitters say..I think they take their knowledge level for granted...


Pin_head was eventually right in my case as well.

He says over and over..half choke to idle plus fuel out the main nozzle is vacuum leak or no fuel in idle curcuit.

For me it was both.
But the idle circuit issue wasn't clear to me so I am documenting it here..wasted way too much time and probably 3 to 4 extra removal/installation cycles of my carb.

I eventually pulled the carb off again and set out to map the idle circuit through the carb..

I pulled the idle solenoid and checked it on the battery again..it worked.

I then took carb cleaner and sprayed it into the hole the solenoid goes in..it went nowhere.

I had a spare carb..did same..
Found it dribbles out the main barrel at the bottom of carb where a tiny hole is below the butterfly (which incidentally I learned should be essentially shut at idle)..
Just as throttle is applied and butterfly starts to open..the "transition slot" appears..this handles throttle transition fuel from idle to accelerate...

I had nothing coming out the idle circuit.

Used compressed air..same thing..

Started taking carb apart...

I noticed the gasket between base and bowl was very slightly off..
Covering a passageway...that I later mapped out to be the idle circuit...

So I pieced together the circuit blowing air through each component starting at the base where I knew the exit was.

I eventually proved each component was clear.

So I knew it had been blocked by the gasket that I had found offset that was blocking the mystery passage I later proved to myself to be the idle circuit.

Here are pics in case any future reader needs to know..mapping circuit up through the components..

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You can see how the gasket can be offset enough to block stuff and the carb will still go together
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Last edited by simps80; 08-31-2014 at 11:27 PM.
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  #227  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:22 PM
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So that was problem one.

I put it together this time aligning gaskets with tiny screwdrivers long enough to make it through.

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Now before air horn went on i blow air through the asseembly to make sure it came through base..to reassure myself that the gaskets didnt shift. (I used a tiny bit of gasket adhesive on the widest parts to make sure)

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Now..this was after I had eliminated all the possibilities. ..
I had capped brake booster and pcv...capped off emissions..
Done the carb cleaner dance around the manifold and carb base etc etc etc...

So I was Pissed!!# when I bolted my newly reassembled carb up and it still had fuel coming out main nozzle.....
One very notable delta was I could now affect idle with the mixture screw on the back..so I knew that was a resolved issue..there was fuel supply in idle circuit.
That was last night....

Today in a desperate act I was going to swap carbs with the old crusty one on the shelf...

So I took it all back apart..then happened to read Jeffs reply above to my stripping the carb stud post....

The bolts holding the manifolds together...hmmm...I never rechecked those...I knew the manifolds needed retorqued after the first time it got hot and cooled and I had done that. .
I had retorqued (and retorqued again) the manifold mounting hardware during this hunt for vacuum leak again as well
.even going 2 lbs tighter on each...
The misting of ether wasnt making changes in idle anymore..but there still had to be a leak cause of the fuel out main nozzle still..

The internal bolts holding the manifolds to each other.. I had never checked those..
So I took a wrench to those bolts and one of them was real loose...I mean real loose..
I had been surprised that since starting this that the mounting hardware took additional torque at least twice now...
So I should have thought to check the bolts between manifold but I hadn't. ..I had even pulled it apart to check for cracks between manifolds from heat riser even though mine operates perfectly... thanks for that reply jeff it made me think of that as a possible issue. .

Anyway ... tightened that up put on carb and it idles without choke...and for the first time..no fuel out the main nozzle!!!!
The idle screw at the base of the firewall side has intended effects now as well..

So it looks like its solved..now for some actual tuning...I can get over 15 inches of vacuum solid no bouncing now at 800...
So I should be able to adjust it good.

I even took a pic of it idling with no fuel out main nozzle lol...

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So yea the conventional wisdom held...
Half choke to idle..
Fuel out main nozzle at idle..
No effect on idle from mixture screw or idle screw..
Equals vacuum leak or idle circuit problem..
Mine was both..just couldn't detect the final (there were multiple) vacuum leak via normal method easily cause it was internal.
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Last edited by simps80; 08-31-2014 at 11:34 PM.
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  #228  
Old 08-31-2014, 08:44 PM
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subzali subzali is offline
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Wow, way to work through the problem! That is some good troubleshooting!
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1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, AATLAS1X leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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  #229  
Old 09-04-2014, 02:23 PM
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Thanks Matt!

fixing all those problems flushed out the next...

so here's where I am at now.

it will time and idle at 650.

on 4 cylinders.

I thought I was crazy not being able to find line or bb with timing light at 12 or even higher....

at 35!!!!!! it shows up...

would account for high heat....

it appears 5 and 6 are intermittent at best.

pulling 5 and 6 plugs reveal what appears to be oil fouled plugs.


putting the timing light on 1-4 the strobe is solid

on 5 and 6 its intermittent that it fires solid.

but it arcs from cap to ground or plug to ground on plug side.

so arc is good

but 5 and 6 have no effect on 'idle' when pulled.

so ... I think basically 5 and 6 are getting oil fould from pcv
that may be because of oil level being too high.
compression is good...
so I'm thinking of putting an oil separator in live with pcv .

vacuum is good and compression good and spark good
so only thing I can think is pcv is fouling 5 and 6 with oil.

was thinking of just venting to atmosphere for pcv ... but would like it to not have to do that ...

thoughts?

the compression is solid ... so I don't think oil fouling is from broken/bad ring...

any thoughts appreciated.

I know it will fail emissions as it sits even though it idles nice but wayyyyy toooo advanced....

just wondering what's oil fouling 5 and 6..gotta be pcv.....the pcv sucks HARRRDDDD with manifold vacuum.
don't think it could be head or rings with good compression plus head has so little oil to begin with...even if ALL the oil from the head was making it past a valve seal or 2 it wouldn't foul like this...

take a good plug brand new run it for less than 10 minutes its foulded...

mike came and f'd with it for a while and said, set it to 12, clean out cylinders vent pcv to atmosphere run it and see what happens...
gonna try that ...

any other input is appreciated

just don't think its coincidence that pulling 5 and 6 wires doesn't have obvious effect on idle and it runs fine with timing wayyy advanced...

gotta think 5 and 6 fouling is the culprit...but why
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  #230  
Old 09-04-2014, 04:58 PM
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You have the vacuum line on the dizzy disconnected?

Not off a tooth on the dizzy right?
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1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, AATLAS1X leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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