Rising Sun Member Forums  

Go Back   Rising Sun Member Forums > Other Hobbies > Ham & CB Radio Corner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 02-20-2008, 01:55 PM
Hants's Avatar
Hants Hants is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Behind the bar
Posts: 1,227
Send a message via Yahoo to Hants
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
The next option would be to have the mobile retransmit your UHF TX and additionally do the flip side and retransmit the other party to your remote UHF frequency. This is called a full duplex cross band repeating. The difference is that your HT only needs to talk to your mobile. But now you have two transmitters working on two different input and output frequencies. This means you have to ID both radios and since you don't know when someone might trip the input to the mobile, it's not technically being ID'd properly. DOING THIS BLINDLY IS ILLEGAL UNLESS THE RADIO SELF IDENTIFIES! If the radio can self ID (with your call sign) when it happens to transmit, this is OK to use as an RX range extender. Also if both hams using the full duplex cross band announce what is going on, that could be fine.
Note that this means that you cannot legally do full-duplex CBR via another (public) repeater unless your mobile self-identifies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
...the FCC only allows you to do remote control tones on the UHF side AFAIK. I've never verified that in the FCC Rules, so that may only be hear-say. But I do believe that doing remote control via an HT on the UHF side is fine, so set up cross band remote controls going UHF-to-VHF and you should never be non-compliant.
I have read from several sources that remote control can only be done via UHF frequencies, also. One of those places is Kenwood's SkyCommand documentation (remote control of their big-boy base station radios). From what I've read, the FCC only requires that the Remote Control be transmitted on UHF -- all other communications can be on other bands. My understanding is that VHFxVHF CBR would be fine with the FCC, as long as Remote Control commands were transmitted on UHF (requiring a dual-VFO HT).
__________________
Hants (KD0CXL) 97 LX450 Slee Armor, 285 BFG/AT, OME 2.5", Altitude Compensator, Kimberley Kamper

"that guy down in Colorado Springs" - Jeff

"Damn you, Hants White!" - CruiserDan

"Wanna race?" - Bill Morgan

"Live long, love lots, cruise often." - Robert Fortune
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-20-2008, 02:02 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 6,562
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hants View Post
then asked her if it was worth the price difference to be able to tell where the rig is when we're in the backcountry. Her response : "<puzzled look> That's a safety feature. Of course its worth it.... as long as its not $1000 more or something."
So what's the story with this APRS? I know about it in theory and everyone talks about being able to report a location in the backcountry. But don't you need a packet-capable repeater for it to work? Are most repeaters capable of this? What about that funky Google reporting, does the digital repeater then also need to be on the Internet? Just wondering, I know pretty much nothing about how this stuff works. I don't have GPS box and I'm not about to buy and drag a laptop with me. I tolerate having a computer at home, but I'm definitely not going to have one with me in the truck.
__________________
'91 Toyota Pickup
'09 Kawasaki KLR650
'12 Gunnar Rockhound 29

"They say the test of literary power is whether a man can write an inscription. I say, 'Can he name a kitten?'" -- Samuel Butler
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-20-2008, 02:38 PM
Hants's Avatar
Hants Hants is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Behind the bar
Posts: 1,227
Send a message via Yahoo to Hants
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
So what's the story with this APRS? I know about it in theory and everyone talks about being able to report a location in the backcountry. But don't you need a packet-capable repeater for it to work? Are most repeaters capable of this? What about that funky Google reporting, does the digital repeater then also need to be on the Internet? Just wondering, I know pretty much nothing about how this stuff works. I don't have GPS box and I'm not about to buy and drag a laptop with me. I tolerate having a computer at home, but I'm definitely not going to have one with me in the truck.
I have a bit of book knowledge, but not *any* real-world experience.

APRS is packet based, and, basically routes packets between radios (TNC's) and "digipeaters". There are a fair number of digipeaters around, but they're not nearly as prevalent as regular repeaters.

APRS rigs update each other, so you'll always see "local" information. You, or a rig within a small number of "hops", must be able to get to a internet-enabled-digipeater for your packets to reach the Google-enabled map.

New Mexico has some of the best coverage in the states (digipeaters on most key high-points). I have not checked the coverage maps of Colorado & Utah yet.

In addition to location updates, you can send "email" to local stations or even internet email addresses. The messages are limited in length (think texting on your cell phone).

In SAR & emergency operations, APRS is commonly used to keep track of tactical (local) locations of resources. A computer at HQ receives (and sends) updates, and displays a map. The internet is not necessary at all for this.

Even though many TNC's can act as digipeaters, convention is that they are NOT configured this way -- primarily because it can cause dramatic traffic increases (congestion on the airwaves). There have been recent protocol changes to help mitigate this.

One of the nice features (for me) of the TM-D710A is that that NO computer is necessary for common APRS scenarios (sending/receiving location updates, sending/receiving messages, viewing & communicating with local "objects"). I have no plans to permanently mount a laptop/carputer in my 80. I will probably carry around a laptop to reprogram as necessary, at least initially.

If you look at the link above, centered on the Denver area, you'll see a few "tracks" of mobile rigs. A lot of the "noise" on the map is static weather stations, and static digipeaters. You can turn off different types of objects so they don't clutter your screen.

Once I get it all installed, I'll take it out and see how it works in real life. I hope the coverage in the places we go (non-urban) is sufficient to be useful to those NOT on the trip. Hey -- someone has to be the vanguard!
__________________
Hants (KD0CXL) 97 LX450 Slee Armor, 285 BFG/AT, OME 2.5", Altitude Compensator, Kimberley Kamper

"that guy down in Colorado Springs" - Jeff

"Damn you, Hants White!" - CruiserDan

"Wanna race?" - Bill Morgan

"Live long, love lots, cruise often." - Robert Fortune
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-20-2008, 03:50 PM
corsair23's Avatar
corsair23 corsair23 is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Littleton
Posts: 8,698
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hants View Post
The Kenwood TM-V71A has all of the features of the TM-D710A, except for the TNC for APRS. It does support Remote Control (via DTMF) and self-identification in CBR mode. It is about the same price as the Yaesu FT-8800R.

The TM-V71A was my radio-of-choice until I asked Caroline. I showed her this link:

http://aprs.fi/

then asked her if it was worth the price difference to be able to tell where the rig is when we're in the backcountry. Her response : "<puzzled look> That's a safety feature. Of course its worth it.... as long as its not $1000 more or something."

Bingo -- budget increase!

- hmm...wonder if that approach will work for me - That is a slick deal that could come in handy for the folks at home. Think Rubithon (assuming it works there). Those that don't go can watch the progress of the group, down to a pretty detailed level
__________________
Jeff Z. (the "not quite as skinny" one)
TLCA #17037
'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-20-2008, 04:10 PM
nakman's Avatar
nakman nakman is offline
Rising Sun Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: north side
Posts: 9,980
Default

You guys saw that "radio dave" video I posted, right? He had that going in his 40.

Great discussion here btw, even if only 20% of it is really sinking in, I'll read it again in a few months and hopefully pick up another 10% or so.. believe it or not one day I didn't know what a CDL button was.. I'm sure in time we'll all get this.
__________________
99 uzj100, 05 525EXC

www.gamiviti.com

Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-20-2008, 04:23 PM
Hants's Avatar
Hants Hants is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Behind the bar
Posts: 1,227
Send a message via Yahoo to Hants
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair23 View Post
- hmm...wonder if that approach will work for me
Dunno -- just don't blame me if you get kicked!

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair23 View Post
That is a slick deal that could come in handy for the folks at home. Think Rubithon (assuming it works there). Those that don't go can watch the progress of the group, down to a pretty detailed level
There was a guy in New Mexico recently, that was going to set his radio to auto-broadcast APRS location every 10 mintes @ 50 Watts during a backcountry trip. Since APRS is on a standard frequency (same frequency everywhere in the US), it probably worked pretty well. 50W is a pretty big bullhorn!

I'll see if I can find the link again and see how it actually worked.

The link above has some pretty cool features. If you know someone's callsign (and they're using APRS), it will automatically find & zoom the map to their last location.

Just don't get caught parking in front of your girlfriend's house!!!
__________________
Hants (KD0CXL) 97 LX450 Slee Armor, 285 BFG/AT, OME 2.5", Altitude Compensator, Kimberley Kamper

"that guy down in Colorado Springs" - Jeff

"Damn you, Hants White!" - CruiserDan

"Wanna race?" - Bill Morgan

"Live long, love lots, cruise often." - Robert Fortune
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:39 PM
Romer's Avatar
Romer Romer is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Englewood, Colorado
Posts: 7,074
Default

Man, I gotta play with my Radio more. And here I thought it was so I could talk with Tim and Chris on Monday nights and while offroad.
__________________
Ken Romer - K0ROM
04 UZJ100
77 FJ40
11 RX350
02 Kimberley Kamper

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:40 PM
Uncle Ben's Avatar
Uncle Ben Uncle Ben is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville, Colorado
Posts: 13,153
Send a message via AIM to Uncle Ben
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romer View Post
Man, I gotta play with my Radio more. And here I thought it was so I could talk with Tim and Chris on Monday nights and while offroad.

Maybe your just playing with the wrong knob!
__________________
KUBN
Kevin
TLCA #3007
Northside!

Colorado Trail Patrol
Stay on the Trail!
I'm the God-fearing, gun-toting, American flag-waving, conservative you were warned about!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
I need an FJ40....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Chili View Post
Cruisers are superior
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:41 PM
Romer's Avatar
Romer Romer is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Englewood, Colorado
Posts: 7,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ben View Post
Maybe your just playing with the wrong knob!
Maybe I shoudl switch to the 8800 so I can play with two knobs at the same time
__________________
Ken Romer - K0ROM
04 UZJ100
77 FJ40
11 RX350
02 Kimberley Kamper

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-20-2008, 06:54 PM
Hants's Avatar
Hants Hants is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Behind the bar
Posts: 1,227
Send a message via Yahoo to Hants
Default

Here are some APRS & 1st-radio related links:

http://www.oh8gej.org/index.php?opti...tpage&Itemid=1

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8237

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7857

http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4422

http://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-t...io-advice.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-t...ail-today.html

http://aprs.fi/?call=N6KML&mt=m&z=11&timerange=3600

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...practical.html

http://forum.ih8mud.com/electronic-t...ham-radio.html

Happy reading!
__________________
Hants (KD0CXL) 97 LX450 Slee Armor, 285 BFG/AT, OME 2.5", Altitude Compensator, Kimberley Kamper

"that guy down in Colorado Springs" - Jeff

"Damn you, Hants White!" - CruiserDan

"Wanna race?" - Bill Morgan

"Live long, love lots, cruise often." - Robert Fortune
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.