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Old 08-18-2008, 09:41 PM
ColoradoLC ColoradoLC is offline
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Default Rebuild starter myself or have someone else do it?

I'm in the middle of my carb rebiuld on my 60 and find out from my wife that the 80 is having trouble starting sometimes. Based on the occasional issues and clicking with no turnover, I suspect the solenoids need replacing. I've done some checking on 'Mud and it seems that is the most likely case at least.

With that in mind, I think I could tackle this, but I have a queue of car repairs to do, so I am on the fence about taking it to someone to rebuild and just be done with it since I am already trying to get the 60 back in action.

Where can I source solenoid parts for the OEM starter locally? Would the dealer carry those or should I just get them from CDan?

Are any reputable places in the Centennial/South Denver area that you folks might recommend?

Thanks!

Winston
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Old 08-18-2008, 09:56 PM
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nakman nakman is offline
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Not a bad job to do yourself, pulling the starter is the hardest part, getting the right combination of extensions, etc. But if you haven't done it before, figure half a day. You can get the parts from any Toyota dealer.

If you want a shop to do it, I'd suggest Alatao Auto in Aurora (Irbis Offroad?).. Oleg knows exactly what to do and could do it quickly, send a PM to Irbis...

you could also PM Squishy here on the forum..
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:04 AM
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The contacts in question should run you less than $20. Or you could pay well north of $100 like a friend of mine, with 95% of the job still having to be done. It ain't hard.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:03 AM
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Toy Car Care off Arapahoe Rd.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:40 AM
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corsair23 corsair23 is offline
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If I can do it you can do it

Get the # off your starter to insure you get the right parts (2 different starters on 80s out there apparently) when you call/go in and get them.

As for the starter itself, I wrestled with trying to get the front bolt off and then hit MUD where I found a thread that stated you CAN get a 1/2" impact wrench up in there. It is a tight fit but sure enough, one will fit - Makes getting the bolts (front and rear) off and back on super easy. I removed my starter when I was replacing the PHH as it makes a huge difference in the amount of space you have to get to the PHH. I would do the PHH at the same time if you can and assuming you haven't replaced the PHH yet.

Basically for the starter you take off the DS tire, remove a couple of the "skirts", remove the two bolts, do the rebuild paying attention to how everything goes, and then put the starter back in. IIRC it took me less than an hour to actually rebuild the starter (I'm pretty slow) and maybe about 1/2 that to remove and reinstall the starter (once I enlisted the aid of the air gun). Add some time for lifting the rig, taking the tire off, etc.

Per the FSM you are supposed to put like 300lbs of pressure (or some insane # like that) on the contacts when you are replacing them to insure they sit flat and stay in place. I used the suggestion I found in the MUD thread which is to use a piece of wood and put all of your weight on the wood and push down on the contacts while tightening the bolts. It has been 4 months and no issues so I guess it worked.

BEFORE you go through all this though you may want to first insure the cables to the starter are on there tight just for kicks and grins - Might be that simple of an issue as Radar found out.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:15 AM
ColoradoLC ColoradoLC is offline
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Thanks guys. I think I am going to tackle this one myself. Good idea to take the part # in to get the right solenoid.

Corsair, thanks for the tips. I didn't see those on Mud yet, but I'm sure I'll find them before I get started. Yours may be enough. It sounds like if I can rebuild a carb, I should be fine with it, but I like hearing about the tricks before I start, so thanks.
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:16 AM
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easy thing to do...treeroot and i did both ours the other day and the hardest part was getting the starters off.
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoLC View Post
Corsair, thanks for the tips. I didn't see those on Mud yet, but I'm sure I'll find them before I get started. Yours may be enough. It sounds like if I can rebuild a carb, I should be fine with it, but I like hearing about the tricks before I start, so thanks.
Here is the procedure I followed (along with the FSM of course )

http://www.george4wd.taskled.com/starter.html

It was a link in one of the MUD threads I came across and it is also the page that is linked to from the 80 Series FAQs on MUD

If you are in a hurry to just get the starter rebuilt and don't have time for the PHH (or even the fuel filter while you're in there ) at least give the PHH a good look over to see if it looks like it can go for a lot longer or if you are on borrowed time. No better time to get a good look at it than when the starter is out of the way
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'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:47 PM
ColoradoLC ColoradoLC is offline
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Good point about the PHH. I should take care of that too. If I ask for a PHH at the local dealer over on Broadway, will they look at me funny? Does it have an official name besides Pesky Heater Hose?

Looks like I am really going to be getting some good quality garage time in this week.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:19 PM
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corsair23 corsair23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoLC View Post
Good point about the PHH. I should take care of that too. If I ask for a PHH at the local dealer over on Broadway, will they look at me funny? Does it have an official name besides Pesky Heater Hose?
I'm sure it has an official name (lower heater hose maybe?) but I don't know what it is off the top of my head. If you are talking about Burt over on Broadway then I bet Joe probably knows about it or can find it for you with no problem.

Many folks (like me) have gone with this kit --> http://www.1fzfephh.com/

The kit is more expensive but worth it IMO knowing you should NEVER have to replace it again . Many people just source the stuff in the kit locally at a NAPA etc. At current gas prices though it is getting cheaper to shop from home than drive all over the place collecting parts for me...I have another kit that I plan to use on the 's 80 someday that if you get in a bind you're welcome to use and just replace with another kit when it arrives.

Anyway, there are a ton of threads on MUD about replacing the PHH, what people have found to work well, what to avoid (like the knock sensor), etc. I warn you though that if you throw the PHH in with the starter rebuild plan on a full day just in case unless of course the stars and moons all align for you on that particular day . - I would also encourage you to read as many of the threads as you can stand and print out any that have good tips.

I did mine PHH replacement during a full coolant hose replacement, coolant flush, starter rebuild, etc. marathon session. If you don't have a full day, possibly two, to let the 80 sit while you work on it then I would just eyeball the PHH when you do the starter rebuild. It may be fine. I had planned to replace mine regardless just for piece of mind. Honestly the old one looked to be in good shape (had ~105K miles or so on it) other than the dremel marks and pieces pulled off getting it out. I believe it was the original PHH as it had the sardine clamp and the compression clamp orientation could ONLY have been put on that way with the engine out of the rig . I drained my coolant as I planned to flush my system and put in all new coolant so I don't know if you can replace the PHH with minimal leakage or not .

Replacing the PHH isn't a technical challenge, more of a physical one. There is very little room to work and just getting the old hose off and the new hose on can be difficult (pick up some lube to aid in getting the new hose on ). There are items that you can loosen/remove that make the job easier (like the hard down pipe, AT dipstick tube, etc) but even those can be a pain to loosen/remove without the right tools (I could only get to the lower bolt on the hard pipe for instance), etc. Most people, like I did, end up cutting the old hose off with a dremel and cut off wheel. I found that you can pound the center pin of the sardine clamp out (assuming the PHH is original) to aid in getting that one off. Depending on the orientation of the compression clamp you may have to cut that one off (like I did) if you can't get a pair of pliers in there. Plan to cuss quite often, get frustrated often, take breaks, etc. which only adds to the total time.

Many consider replacing the PHH a right of passage to 80 ownership. If I were you unless you PLAN to do it anyway, I would just eyeball it and see what it looks like. Pulling the starter a second time is cake compared to replacing the PHH and some people replace the PHH without removing the starter (so I've read) although that must make it even more of a PITA.

Good luck
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Jeff Z. (the "not quite as skinny" one)
TLCA #17037
'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater
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