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Old 12-28-2016, 06:14 PM
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powderpig powderpig is offline
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Default New national monuments

Wonder how this will effect back country traveling we have enjoyed for many years in this area. Obama sign the Bears Ears national monument.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.6ff8a1a01444

This has some of my favorite areas to go and get away from most people.

Not really looking forward to hearing we can not go there any more.
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:19 PM
J Kimmel J Kimmel is offline
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I'd imagine highly restricted I nothing else.
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Old 12-28-2016, 09:51 PM
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National monument is kind of half way between "forest" and "park". I'll happily take a few road closures over private business interestes destroying it for what ever profitable reason.
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:03 AM
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National monument is kind of half way between "forest" and "park". I'll happily take a few road closures over private business interestes destroying it for what ever profitable reason.
In the case of Bears Ear it appears that the goal is to make it difficult to access native American sites in the name of preserving them from vandalism. Which means making the Monument roadless and limit the number of trails. Bears Ear is about 1.9 million acres that goes from Glen Canyon over to Natural Bridges and up to Canyonlands.

The Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance is behind this as a backdoor way using the Antiquities Act to expand the native protection (which is noble, don't disagree) to including Cedar Mesa and all the Canyonlands expansion they've been wanting. This potentially impacts Beef Basin, Elephant Hill, Moab Rim, Lockhart Basin, Abajo Mountains, Dark Canyon, Hole In The Rock, etc. Since it was done using the Antiquities Act and without the authority of Congress it's not a done deal and can be undone also by unilateral presidential decree.

It's about 1/3rd of what the SUWA calls American's Red Rock Wilderness Area. Their goal in this is to close off just about everything to OHV and bicycles, so we have to be careful not to inadvertently get caught up closing access blindly while trying to do the right thing. Since there's no way to really prevent vandalism by someone who already ignores laws against it all we do is guarantee that the BLM and NPS, being understaffed, can only shut down legal access. That's the SUWA's goal no matter what veil they use and which tribes they exploit.

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Old 12-29-2016, 09:05 AM
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HITR is outside the final map I saw posted yesterday. The other areas mentioned could be at risk. It's a tough one from both sides. Everyone screamed about Escante National Monumnet long ago. Have we seen reduced access as a result? (Kind of before I really payed close attention)
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbet View Post
HITR is outside the final map I saw posted yesterday. The other areas mentioned could be at risk. It's a tough one from both sides. Everyone screamed about Escante National Monumnet long ago. Have we seen reduced access as a result? (Kind of before I really payed close attention)
I don't think Grand Staircase-Escalante had quite the direct OHV and mechanized impact that this does. With the number of user groups who already exist for this I'd think a comment period, public hearing or notification would have been appropriate. Expansion of NRAs and NPs require approval of Congress for a reason, which is so the public has representation to be a party of it.

People were really upset when Clinton did this back in 1996, too. There are still legal disputes pending over Grand Staircase-Escalante that the state wants to continue to improve roads within it that existed at the time it was set aside and they want to develop lands they held in trust at the time of their acceptance of statehood.

Also not suggesting that it's not something that has merit, we do need to protect things and balance uses. Nor do I believe that wholesale shutting out grazing, oil and mining are also always necessary but I do want some things not drilled.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:10 PM
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On one hand, national monument status is like erecting giant signs telling the masses where the "sights" are (but this is already happening via social media and forums like this one). On the other, it might help protect some of those areas from more extraction industry destruction.

Also, consider that once Trump takes office, it's likely to be repealed. And with the way his cabinet is shaping up, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of public land turned over to the states, extraction industries and development companies.

Lose Lose situation. "Protected" and closed, or sold off for extraction and development...
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
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.... Have we seen reduced access as a result? (Kind of before I really payed close attention)
Absolutely!

Paria Canyon, one of the neatest routes in Southern Utah! http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/PG_Paria_262.html
Horse Canyon: http://www.expeditionutah.com/forum/...ead.php?t=1089
Harris Wash/Silver Creek

Much like the Rincon situation, the counties say they are their roads and open. The fed says closed and be ready for a ticket.
http://www.expeditionutah.com/forum/...5&postcount=73
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:49 PM
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My opinion on the situation. An answer in search of a problem. There are better ways to protect land than making it a tourist destination for tin-can campers and picnic tables.

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Old 12-29-2016, 08:08 PM
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my Opinion On The Situation. An Answer In Search Of A Problem. There Are Better Ways To Protect Land Than Making It A Tourist Destination For Tin-can Campers And Picnic Tables.

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