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  #21  
Old 07-26-2017, 01:54 PM
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AxleIke AxleIke is offline
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Can you try with the rear case in neutral, and then with the rear case in high, and the middle case in neutral. Both with everything else the same (1st but clutch pushed in).

Didn't see anything in the video, but I recall when you were trying to pull apart your transfercases you pried the trans apart accidently. By running with the cases in neutral, it could tell if the problem is in the middle case, the rear case, or the transmission.

Rear case in neutral = no noise: possible middle case or trans), noise: likely rear case issue
middle case in neutral, rear case in high= no noise: likely trans, noise: possible middle case

Again, reaching here.
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2017, 02:02 PM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
Can you try with the rear case in neutral, and then with the rear case in high, and the middle case in neutral. Both with everything else the same (1st but clutch pushed in).

Didn't see anything in the video, but I recall when you were trying to pull apart your transfercases you pried the trans apart accidently. By running with the cases in neutral, it could tell if the problem is in the middle case, the rear case, or the transmission.

Rear case in neutral = no noise: possible middle case or trans), noise: likely rear case issue
middle case in neutral, rear case in high= no noise: likely trans, noise: possible middle case

Again, reaching here.
I'll give it a shot tonight when I get home. I could also unlock the rear hubs which should take the entire drivetrain out of the picture.
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2017, 08:30 PM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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Okay here's the update:
  • Test 1: transmission in neutral: NO PROBLEM
  • Test 2: Transmission in 1st: problem
  • Test 3: front T-case in neutral: NO PROBLEM
  • Test 4: rear T-case in neutral: NO PROBLEM
  • Test 5: T-case in 2nd: problem
  • Test 6: Transmission in 3rd, front t-case in low (2.28:1): problem
  • Test 7: Transmission in 5th, rear t-case in low (4.7:1): problem
  • Test 8: Transmission in 1st, rear locker engaged: problem
  • Test 9: Transmission in 2nd, engine engaged (coasting against the engine): problem

So your grasping at straws appears to be correct, Isaac. Something is going on between the gear selector and the clutch in the transmission.

Now I'm facing the question of what to do next. When I had the transmission out and pulled it apart previously, I didn't do anything other than open it up, replace the seals, and put it back together. All my tools were accounted for and all of the bolts were accounted for. I see no evidence of transmission leaks.

I bled the clutch and put new fluid in it back in February-ish. Fluid level remains good (previously the fluid was green from algae. It's a thing that happens in the PNW!).

Should I go ahead and start dropping out the transmission so I can open up and inspect? Is there something I can check externally before I do that?
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1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:55 PM
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AxleIke AxleIke is offline
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I'm about at the end of my helpful knowledge. I've pulled apart a few transmisisons but not enough to be an expert. Based on the issue, a couple things come to mind.

1. Chipped tooth or teeth on the gears. You maybe will see this on the drain plug, but in the R series tranny's, there is a larger magnet that sits up in the center plate that I would think would catch things more readily than the drain. Not sure about the W series. Can't easily check that magnet without taking the trans out and apart.

2. VERY unlikely but if you were missing a detent or interlock in on the shift rails and the coasting action was able to kinda shift one of the selector rings of the other gears into the syncro, the trans will try to sieze up. (for example, when you are torquing stuff on the trans during reassembly, you shift into two gears at once (no interlocks or detents in at this point) and this locks the whole trans up allowing you to torque 5th gear (on the R150F in the later trucks). I REALLY doubt that is the case. Again, not something that can be checked while in the truck.

Those are just my totally off the cuff guesses. I'm out of my element here, so I'll have to defer to a more knowledgable person. Thefatkid or BVB are two of the guys I go to. I know they are both busy and may not have checked out the thread, but are a wealth of knowledge.
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  #25  
Old 07-28-2017, 11:18 AM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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I have messages out to both TheFatKid and BVB. Hopefully one of them has a miracle cure

Last night I noticed that I am missing one bolt on my rear transfer case mount (I have two of the heavy-duty painted red transfer case mounts from Marlin Crawler holding both t-cases. In the front I have "bomb-proof" motor mounts.) between the mount and the rear t-case. I'll get that replaced ASAP and see if by some fluke that has anything to do with this.

I also noticed that my clutch fluid has gone green again. I have new master and slave cylinders that I'll install and see if for some bizarre reason, that has any bearing on the situation.

Looking at the transmission last night, it appears everything is as it should be. All of the detent spring covers are still installed and tight. The various plugs are in place. All bolts are present on the bell housing and between the t-cases and trans.

On E-Bay I see that I can get a used transmission for $500 shipped. So I guess that's not the end of the world. At this point it seems like it's either something internal in the transmission, the bearings that can be accessed in the bell housing, or the clutch. I reaaaaaaally don't want to have to drop out this transmission because I only have a gravel barnyard to work in so I'm going to exhaust the few potential things it could be that are external to the transmission. If I have to though, I'll get a sheet of thick plywood and do the work.
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1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
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  #26  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:36 AM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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I ended up spending the few hours where it wasn't too hot to work outside this weekend chasing down a starter issue. Ended up swapping in my spare Nippon Denso starter (thanks Yota Jim!), wiring in a generic automotive relay in place of the stock Toyota starter relay, sourcing voltage for the starter solenoid from a spare fuse in the engine bay, bypassing the harness between the relay and solenoid, and replacing the female end of the connector at the solenoid before it worked reliably. I also disassembled the dash to verify functionality of the wiring and switches involved with the starter. (while I was at it, I removed an old and poorly installed aftermarket harness that had been for a long-gone cruise control)

And... that didn't help anything related to my jerking/stumbling/surging problem.

I talked briefly with both of the folks you mentioned, Isaac. I have another thing to try and check: unlock my rear hubs (I have full floater), lock in my front hubs and put it in 4WD, and see if I still have the issue. And if I do, then try uninstalling the rear drive shaft.

If that has no effect, then I can try replacing the master/slave clutch cylinders. I doubt that'll help but who knows. I think I need to drop the transmission and inspect the pilot and release bearings. If I get this far, hopefully this is the issue. Otherwise....
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Douglas in the Free Republic of Cascadia
1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
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  #27  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:13 PM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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This freaking truck right now:



I did a few more tests just now. Here are the baffling results (when taken into account with previous results):
  • RWD and 4WD but with only rear hubs locked (I have full floater on the rear) - problem occurs
  • 4WD with both front and rear hubs locked - NO PROBLEM
  • 4WD with ONLY front hubs locked (rear hubs UNLOCKED) - NO PROBLEM

If I hadn't done the other tests with my transmission and t-cases, this would point me toward either the rear differential or the rear locking hubs. So now I have no idea what to think!

The sun just went off the gravel barnyard so I can finally crawl around under the truck without catching on fire (it's HOT in Oregon this week). I'm going to look in the inspection hatch on my rear diff to see what I can see.
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Douglas in the Free Republic of Cascadia
1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
KD7YBQ
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  #28  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:21 PM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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Here are some photos from the rear diff. Everything looks good. All nice and smooth action. No hang-ups with the bearings.

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The oil I am told looks contaminated. I think I had about 500 miles on this oil since I changed it. I did have an axle seal fail shortly before that which I had to rebuild. Probably got some axle grease into the oil at that point.

I guess while I'm this deep, I might as well inspect the bearings on the driver's rear wheel although they move nice and smooth, and with no movement laterally.

I think I'll put on the permanently locked hubs when I reassemble to see if that for some bizarre reason makes a difference vs the Asin hubs. If that doesn't do it, then I'm looking at dropping the transmission out tomorrow to inspect it.
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Douglas in the Free Republic of Cascadia
1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
KD7YBQ
TLCA #23604
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2017, 08:59 AM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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Here's a video of the rear diff: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXQMBQnAY3J/

Is this normal or an issue?
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Douglas in the Free Republic of Cascadia
1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
KD7YBQ
TLCA #23604
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  #30  
Old 08-01-2017, 09:59 AM
DouglasVB DouglasVB is offline
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I'm told by my diff builder that it seems normal. Tonight I'm going to apply some air to the locker and see if anything is leaking. Previously I seemed to have an air leak from somewhere inside the diff (compressor running periodically, air hiss at diff breather, etc.).
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1986 Toyota 4runner with all of the desirable features - The Albino Rhino
1988 Toyota 4runner DLX - Goldilocks has gone to a new home!
1989 Honda Pacific Coast PC800
2001 Ford Focus ZX3 hot hatch
KD7YBQ
TLCA #23604
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