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  #21  
Old 01-27-2010, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
I also personally had trouble if the computer controlling the ABS/ATAC/VSC messing with the brakes. That was one thing I did not like about that 4Runner was the anti-lock/anti-skid controller was really aggressive at throttle and brake control. Sometimes it would cut power and apply brakes when crossing an icy intersection leaving you vulnerable to a 'T'-bone as you creep through. Push the gas pedal as hard as you want, the fuel controller cut power to where there was zero wheel spin. As a result you'd go through an intersection as 2 MPH with your foot to the floor and the engine idling. It ignored the gas pedal in that case. Vice versa, if the ECU reset or crashed, perfectly possible that the fuel controller could wig out and go WOT with your foot off the pedal. A dirt sensor, solar flare, spilled Coke on the wiring, lots of possible reasons for it.
I agree - and it seems to me that the Toyota version is exceptionally bad/aggressive when compared with other vehicles with these systems. Rather than being a "silent helper", the traction control is very much obvious and in your face (or foot) as to how aggressively it cuts power.

The newer Tacomas (and presumably runners) have added a manual on/off switch for the VSC and TRAC systems, which I'm sure came partly because of owner complaints.
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  #22  
Old 01-28-2010, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
Something to keep in mind about brakes is that most new cars do not have vacuum boosters, the assist is electronic and the controllers for the ABS can vary which hydraulic circuit gets controlled. It can cut pressure to unlock a wheel or apply pressure to slow it down. That is all apart of the vehicle stability controller, which starts and stops wheel spin to correct your orientation.

I also personally had trouble if the computer controlling the ABS/ATAC/VSC messing with the brakes. That was one thing I did not like about that 4Runner was the anti-lock/anti-skid controller was really aggressive at throttle and brake control. Sometimes it would cut power and apply brakes when crossing an icy intersection leaving you vulnerable to a 'T'-bone as you creep through. Push the gas pedal as hard as you want, the fuel controller cut power to where there was zero wheel spin. As a result you'd go through an intersection as 2 MPH with your foot to the floor and the engine idling. It ignored the gas pedal in that case. Vice versa, if the ECU reset or crashed, perfectly possible that the fuel controller could wig out and go WOT with your foot off the pedal. A dirt sensor, solar flare, spilled Coke on the wiring, lots of possible reasons for it.

So I could absolutely see a Lexus getting into a confused state and mucking with the brakes such that you push the pedal as hard as you want and it not doing anything because of the anti-stupid controls kicking in. That happened to me and it really is a disconcerting feeling of having the pedal go to the floor and nothing happening.
Sounds more like a case of safety regulations gone outta control more than anything else. If it was actually a requirement that an individual had to demonstrate the true ability to "drive" a vehicle before being issued a license, then we wouldn't need all of this safety and convenience s**t on a vehicle today go bad.

If the guy could have just reached over and turned the "key off" instead of some stupid convenience button unable to respond when the accelerator stuck they would all be alive today.

If you could still just "pump" your brakes a few times to stop on ice or snow, your car or truck wouldn't leave you sitting helpless and outta control in the middle of the intersection with no power to get you outta there!

Just more examples of government attempting to regulate personal responsibility out of another facit of our daily lives Hello!
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2010, 02:37 PM
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Intersting read:

http://www.designnews.com/article/44...71&rid=2561816

What's also interesting now that I think about it is that Allisons TDI Jetta will cut the throttle if you hit the brakes even if the gas pedal is mashed. Found that one out trying to get the turbo to spool at red lights.
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2010, 03:48 PM
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Found that one out trying to get the turbo to spool at red lights.
- You know, that doesn't surprise me
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:20 AM
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This is looking a lot worse than floormats... the beginning of the article covers government posing... toward the end, they get down to mechanical causes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...711640152.html
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2010, 01:38 PM
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  #27  
Old 02-09-2010, 05:12 PM
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Putting it all into perspective?

Recalling Recent Recalls

Quote:
So the gas pedal is a little sticky.

Why are people freaking out about Toyota?

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Wednesday that people should "stop driving" Toyotas affected by recalls. Later in the day, he apparently calmed down and said this was "obviously a misstatement."

Toyota has been slow to address its problems and has brought much of this hysteria upon itself.

People are now terrorizing themselves with mental images of cars careening out of control. Just last week, though, they were content to give dangerous manufacturing defects nary a thought.

There are so many recalls, it's impossible to recall all the recalls.
Few will remember, for instance, the SlyDog retractable dog leash sold by Dollar General Stores nationwide, until they were recalled in September 2008.

Let's say you drive your Toyota Corolla to the park with your pooch.
Your gas pedal didn't stick. And you're thinking that you just did some really smart shopping at the dollar store, when suddenly the clasp connected to your dog's collar breaks, and the leash snaps back toward your face.

"Facial cuts, a broken tooth, displaced eye lens, and a bruised collar bone," were some of the horrific consequences of this product, according to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Troll through the commission's website, www.cpsc.gov, and marvel at some of the really bad things that can happen due to common product defects.

Besides dangerous cars and faulty tires, the world is rife with batteries that overheat, window blinds that strangle, tiny parts that choke infants, and toys coated with lead paint, not to mention tainted foods that can make you puke for days on end.

This is good news for Toyota because eventually, there will be a bigger recall that will make everyone forget about its gas pedal recalls.
Here are some tragic scenarios reported over the past several months that we've already forgotten:

Let's say that instead of driving your potentially defective Toyota, you ride your bike. But it's a Cannondale with a suspension fork made by J.D. Components of Taiwan. The "fork can lose alignment causing the front wheel to turn unexpectedly," the commission reported May 19. "This can cause the rider to lose control of the bicycle and crash."

You've hauled your 2009 FX10 Yamaha snowmobile to the woods with your Toyota Tundra truck without incident. But suddenly, your snowmobile is careering toward a tree. "A bolt in the right front A arm can loosen in the suspension/steering system, resulting in the sudden loss of steering control," the commission reported Jan. 27.

You drive your Toyota Matrix to the archery range. No problem. You're enjoying some target practice with your new Eagle 5 Rifle Crossbow, made in Taiwan. Suddenly, an apple balanced on the head of a small boy standing 80 paces away splits into half. "The trigger mechanism becomes loose after 30 shots," the commission reported Jan. 19 "The crossbow will automatically discharge on its own."

You drive your Toyota Prius to the hardware store and pick up some books: "Lowe's Complete Home Wiring," "Sunset Home Repair Handbook," and a few similar titles. "The books contain errors that could lead consumers to incorrectly install or repair electrical wiring, posing an electrical shock or fire hazard," the commission reported Jan. 8.

You drive your Toyota Rav4 to the ocean for some scuba diving. Your gas pedal didn't stick. But something else did: The gage on your "Cressi Ellipse Black MC5 Regulator." You're down 90 feet and it says you've still got plenty of air to come up. "The inaccurate reading on the gauge poses a drowning hazard to divers," the commission reported Dec. 23.

You drive to the mall and buy a skull-and-crossbones necklace at Spencer Gifts LLC, a chain based in Egg Harbor Township, N.J. "The skull and metal clasp of the necklace contain high levels of lead," the commission warned on Jan. 29. Hey, at least it's shaped like the symbolic warning for poison.

You do not drive your Toyota Avalon to Starbucks. You stay home with your Starbucks Barista Blade Grinder. "The grinder can turn on unexpectedly, posing a laceration hazard," the commission reported June 16.

You stay home to mow the lawn with your liquid-cooled Toro Z Master Z580, made by The Toro Co. of Bloomington, Minn. "The coolant overflow container can become over-pressurized and cause hot coolant to spray on the operator," the commission reported on October 22.

You take your Graco stroller, by Graco Children's Products Inc., of Atlanta, from the back of your Toyota Highlander. You're no longer worried about a sticky gas pedal. You're worried about your child getting sunburned. But suddenly you hear a ghastly shriek. "The hinges on the stroller's canopy pose a fingertip amputation and laceration hazard," the commission reported Jan. 20.

You drive to Home Depot and buy a beige patio umbrella. "The patio umbrella and its pole could tip over and strike consumers," the commission reported May 28.

You safely drive your Toyota Sequoia to the ski slopes, but the bindings on your skis are made by Salomon USA of Ogden, Utah. "The toe component of the ski bindings could fail causing the binding to release unexpectedly," the commission reported Nov. 19. "This could cause the skier to lose control." One broken leg and one injured knee have been reported, alleging defects with certain models.

You drive home in your Toyota Camry for a hot bath in your whirlpool tub made by Crane Plumbing LLC of Dallas. "The drain covers in the tubs can entangle a bather's hair causing the bather's head to be held under water, which can result in drowning," the commission reported June. 23.
Stuff happens. But at least if your Toyota's gas pedal sticks you can hit the brakes or shift into neutral.
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  #28  
Old 02-10-2010, 10:36 AM
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True as that article may be... I don't think it applies in this case.

Read this and tell me something doesn't smell fishy in Tokyo:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...096312238.html

It reminds me of when the headgaskets went on my 1990 3.0 4Runner. Had to go back and forth several times with the factory rep. This was despite increasing numbers of complaints on HG failures. They knew. Finally they acknowledged the issue and covered it. Wasn't long after, a recall happened. But they initially wanted me to pay for it, then labor, then half of it, then they covered it.
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  #29  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Red_Chili View Post
True as that article may be... I don't think it applies in this case.

Read this and tell me something doesn't smell fishy in Tokyo:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...096312238.html


Wowzers...

I'm still confused though on some things...Maybe we just aren't hearing about the incidents where people were able to handle the acceleration issue but if I'm in my car, and it just takes off on me, my first inclination would be to hit the brakes and give the gas pedal a tap to "unstick" it....Assuming that didn't work then my next inclination would be to shift to neutral and turn the vehicle off.

Is there something in the design of these vehicles that if the computer senses acceleration (unintended or not) that it overrides a persons ability to either brake, shift to neutral, of just shut the vehicle of? I know all too well the negative affects on power steering and braking when a vehicle shuts off (my Durango did this to me several times coming back from Ouray while towing the popup when the PCM was starting to go) but dealing with limited steering and braking is better than zooming down the road at 120 , assuming the computer isn't overriding one's ability to just shut the vehicle down...
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'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater
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  #30  
Old 02-10-2010, 11:45 AM
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AFAIK it did interfere. The cop who died with his family in the loaner Lexus at 120mph kept trying to kill the motor. But a) the way to turn off the ignition was to hold the 'Start' button for three seconds (a cue from Microsoft? ), and b) not knowing that, he kept tapping it to no avail. Not sure if the transmission locked into D in motion or not. The guy was NOT an idiot though. Apparently there is no brake-throttle cutoff, unlike GM models and others.

RIP.
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