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  #11  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:08 PM
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I can't speak for the new stuff now, but in 2003 I got to drive SUV's from most manufactures on a test track. I found that of all the large SUV's they had available the Sequoia's electronics kicked in faster than anything else I drove. Way too early IMO. So unless Toyota has toned it down a lot realitively to other makers there must be a honest problem.

But that said people need to learn how to drive again and take responsibility for their mistakes behind the wheel.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:28 PM
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Marco - I hear ya, but in all seriousness, today's vehicles are overly dependent on technology. some manufacturers are using tech systems to overcome mechanical design, not to aid it. With that statement in mind, if that tech system doesn't perform to expectations, there is a huge issue.

I have the vw/porsche/audi control system in my w8. With around 310 bhp, in that small car, I can't make the car skid without a total loss of friction. My system monitors pitch/yaw/slip. If I switch it off, I still have a tough time making the 4motion/quattro break free without a total loss of friction.

In a large four wheel drive suv, the issue is not so much skid, but pitch/yaw and controlling body roll through breaking and torque to affected wheels, much like touching the rear brake during a power wheelie on a bike.

I hear your thoughts, but the fact is these vehicles are expected to handle like cars, when the physical design isn't meant to. I heard all the time about "my lifted/modded 80 rev's to high at 80mph.." I'm sorry, but who would want to drive their lifted modded vehicle at 80mph in the mountains on a freeway?

There has to be level set on what vehicles are expected to be safe doing. Some of this is common sense, but alas, common sense in the american society is becoming less common.

I fully expect my T100 to be more prone to roll in a panic situation, and I drive accordingly. Suzie soccer mom and tommy the trader, on average, do not. With our litigious society, that is an issue.

oh and conspiracy my arse...
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:40 PM
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Hogwash.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2010, 08:43 PM
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common sense in the american society is becoming less common.
Here lies the problem
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2010, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacket View Post
So who's starting to wonder if there's a conspiracy at work here. I mean - the economy tanks, and the big 3 auto makers nearly end up in the history books. Toyota is still sitting atop the leader board, even though it too suffered some loses resulting from the economic downturn. Now all of the sudden, Toyota has a myriad of quality issues, cars that can accelerate and kill people, and an SUV that is branded "unsafe" because it's VSC failed to operate properly.

Anybody else wonder if there's a deep-seeded conspiracy to dethrone Toyota as a part of the overall recovery of the American branded auto makers?
Thank you to one of the "real" Matt's......Let the truth be known.

Bottom line, and it's no coincidence, CR is totally out for grabbing the headlines!

IMHO, Nothing but media trash! The public is so frigin' gullable to this kinda crap Please, learn how to drive...or just stay home!

In today's world, nobody is responsible for their own actions. (Webmaster: We need a Smilee for BS) The machine you buy should be capable of taking care of every possible situation that "might arise" give me a break....get a life people....don't blame someone else for your lack of whatever!

Seems to me, the economy is in the tank....and Governmet Motors (GM) is too, any possibility that CR might be looking for subscribers and in bed with GM?

I recall Suzuki was killing the market in 1988-89 when the Samurai hit the news courtesey of CR. I drove one of those dogs for over 250K iles and unless you were totally an idiot, you couldn't roll it on purpose. I twice put it down over a 30ft. road embankment in the snow and it never even hinted of tipping. At 50 MPH, if you yanked on the wheel two or three times you might get a tire to lift off the pavement....but you had to be going down Mt Vernon canyon to get up that much speed!

Lets all have a or three and then (Hey Hulk! Where's that Smilee for BS?) Take it for what it's worth. Other comments....Please~!
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:25 AM
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I'm sorry, but who would want to drive their lifted modded vehicle at 80mph in the mountains on a freeway?
That would be me. (koff koff).

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(Webmaster: We need a Smilee for BS)
Actually, we were planning a smiley intervention for you, Dave. Just back away from the smileys, slow and easy.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2010, 06:22 AM
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That would be me. (koff koff).
Just because you do or can doesn't mean you should. It's not fundamentally safe, at least reasonably so, compared to the right car for going 80 on the highway.

I had a design class that was partially covering technology and humans. Something that has always stuck with me is that we get dazzled by the latest gizmo without considering how we use or interface with it. For example computers. Staring at a screen and QWERTY keyboard are horrible ways to use a computer, laptops are even worse. You get neck pain, wrist pain, bad eyes.

The prof suggested that technology should adapt to you, not require you to adapt to it. When you think about this you start to see how we allow our stuff to define how we function. To some extent this is unavoidable, but doesn't have to be set in stone. Like Jeff's example when I've talked about the VSC system in our 4Runner kicking in on snow packed roads in the middle of intersections. I hated that and when it did that I wanted to throw it in park, pull out that VSC ECU and bash it with a Louisville Slugger. I of all people understand that no system can ever anticipate all scenarios correctly, but it really irritated me was that it could not be defeated in normal operation. This is the dumbing down of people, the assumption that operators are too stupid to know how to work things.

And yes, I do think the GX460 is 'unsafe', but no more so that any other SUV. Like Beater mentions, the laws of physics are unbreakable and if the hairy edge determination between safe and unsafe is solely what technology upon which you rely, then you've got a more fundamental problem IMVHO. They are all the wrong vehicle for pavement pounding. I like their space but not their high CoG and poor mileage. This is why ours got replaced with the Jetta Sportwagen. I don't think all those stability controls should not be there, but they don't substitute for picking a different vehicle or driving it appropriately.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:53 AM
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So I guess the lexus is heavier up top than a runner?
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2010, 08:36 AM
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So I guess the lexus is heavier up top than a runner?
They've always looked taller to me, so maybe they really are. Could also be where they put stuff. The Lexus has I would guess more options and that means more boxes and things above the center line.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:55 AM
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Anybody else wonder if there's a deep-seeded conspiracy to dethrone Toyota as a part of the overall recovery of the American branded auto makers?
Worst-Made Cars on the Road

With a 22% improvement in sales last month, and despite the six-month, $4.3 billion loss it announced Wednesday, General Motors is likely to have its strongest spring and summer in years. Plus, the automaker had critically acclaimed new products at the recent New York Auto Show and the much-anticipated Chevrolet Volt is due out this fall.

Year-over-year sales of GM's Cadillac division alone are up almost 76%; sales in the Buick, Chevrolet and GMC divisions were each up more than 40% for March. The industry as a whole was up 24.3%.

Unfortunately just because GM's cars are selling well now doesn't mean they're the best bet for durability or value -- yet. It'll take awhile before GM's new direction shows up in tangible new products at the dealership.

Four of the seven vehicles on our list of the worst-made cars on the road come from GM brands. And all of the cars on the list -- including Chrysler's Dodge Nitro and Jeep Wrangler -- are made by Detroit's Big Three. Only one car on the list is made by Ford Motor.
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