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  #11  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:09 AM
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Freeze 12 is a mix of R134(80%) and R142 (20%). R134 is know to react badly to older oil in R12 systems.
Here is a link to the EPA site on what is reviewed for replacements for R12
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../macssubs.html

Some of these mixes with R22 will destroy the inner liner of older hoses and require a changing of the hoses to retro fit.
All R12 today sold is recovered and recycled R12. That is why some of the higher cost, whole sale is about 32/can for 12 oz and about 24 dollars a lb if you have a license(legally any how). That is why you could see about 60/lb for R12.
It usually take less than 2 lbs for a recharge of R-12. Really for the best thing for the eviroment is to find the leak(take a charge with die), recover the r-12 ,fix the problem. Charge it back with R12. (as long as you do not need to change the compressor or other high dollar componet).
Most of the other refrigerants do not have the heat carrying capability's that R-12 has. R134a has about 60% efficiency of r-12.
It is a choice. But the statement of fix and fix it right the first time if you have the funds is a great way to do it.
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  #12  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:23 AM
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It looks like people with R134a are going to have to be going through some of the same things in the future. R-134a has some negative effects on the upper layer of the air bag.
It hangs in the air for 14.5 years and can effect many different things. It seems in my reading that the USA is a hold out for r-134 currently. New cars may have something different in the in the very near future.
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  #13  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:30 AM
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I would never convert an R12 system to 134, it will never work as well as it used to. The biggest problem with R12 alternatives is your system will now need to be serviced by someone with dedicated recovery equipment for the hybrid mix. I would never hook my R12 recovery system up to a system contaminated with any of these blends.

If you want to do the repair right you need to put a dye charge into the system and run it long enough to find the leak like powderpig says. The dye kit uses a dye that glows when illuminated with a UV lamp. Fix the leak and recharge with R12. That's the old school way to do it.
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  #14  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:45 AM
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Great stuff. Can anyone recommend an R-12 source [EDIT: a place that would charge the R-12 for me] in Denver?
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Last edited by Inukshuk; 04-20-2010 at 08:00 AM. Reason: EDIT: a place that would charge the R-12 for me
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  #15  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:52 AM
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Not quite that easy. You need an EPA license to buy R12. Although you can get one of those without too much trouble, IOT fix the problem you also need a recovery unit and tank, vacuum pump, charge scale, etc.

If you don't mind driving down to Monument I could help you out, you can PM me. You might fist shop around Denver, it's probably not worth the drive down here when there are plenty of shops where you are.
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2010, 02:45 PM
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Update: Thursday morning Greg at the Toy Shop is going to convert me to R-134. About $200 complete. He will evacuate the remaining R-12 and uses an R-134 with an oil compatible with any remaining in the system. He does not flush out the system. He will check for the leak and replace seals. New refrigerant will have dye in it. I have known Greg for about 12 years and he is what I'd call my regular shop (though I do use our other guys as much as possible - i.e., see the WBPP thread with my shiny new slotted and cross drilled rotors from Slee.)

Thanks for all the input. It was helpful to choosing my course of action.

I'll report back after or you'll see me at CM wearing a ski hat in my rig!
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2010, 02:54 PM
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I'd fix it right for a half of that (cost of R12), but it's your ride and your call.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2010, 04:11 PM
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I've never had or herd or any problems or side affects to the system when using freeze 12. Granted I've always had access to the Proper evap, vacume. & storage A/C machines. So I could always do it properlly and get all the old gas out. But that's my opnion and I'll always use freeze 12 if I needed to recharge another r12 system.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frontrange View Post
I'd fix it right for a half of that (cost of R12), but it's your ride and your call.
Much appreciated offer! I think if I thought I could get several more years by just charging, it would be worth the drive to Monument and $100 less. What do you think? It has always been strong (and I have always made sure to run it a few times in winter to circulate the oil) and now nothing. So I suspect a leak let it all out, but I may be wrong. I'm not trying to spend money when I don't need to and I'm not super picky about my rig. I like to try lower cost options when I can.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2010, 06:50 PM
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If it is still cycling the compressor, you have a slow leak but it is not yet starved of Freon. All automotive AC systems rely on a refrigerant charge to circulate oil to the compressor. No charge, no oil circulation. A pressure switch will kill the current to the AC compressor clutch when you are down to no charge so you don't grenade the compressor and contaminate the system with metal filings.

If it were my ride I'd put a dye charge in there and top off just enough R12 to get the system back to working. It may take a few hours for the dye to show a really minor leak and I'm guessing you wouldn't want to hang around a couple hours or more to see the leak show itself.

I could let you borrow my UV light - check it after a few hours of run time and identify the point where it is leaking. My recovery unit takes about 20-25 minutes to completely drain/recover the R12 so you can open it up to replace the failed O-ring. Its another 10 minutes or so to recharge the system with a measured charge and button everything up. Not a big deal, but two trips unless you want to wait around for everything to be done in a single trip.
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