Rising Sun Member Forums  

Go Back   Rising Sun Member Forums > Other Hobbies > Ham & CB Radio Corner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-04-2010, 03:07 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 6,476
Default 2m SSB

Got my new radio all installed (finally) in the truck. Being that it's all mode, gee whiz, technowonder, I can do some of the more interesting modes.

Like VHF-Hi SSB.

Anyone want to try for a QSO this afternoon during drive time? I only have the dual band on the roof of the truck and so SSB DX probably won't work much but I would like to see what happens locally. In theory even with the wrong polarization this should work across town well compared to FM simplex.

So 144.200 about 1700 local? Remember to use upper sideband on 2 meters and be careful not to stomp on those CW guys below 144.100...
__________________
'91 Toyota Pickup
'09 Kawasaki KLR650
'12 Gunnar Rockhound 29

"They say the test of literary power is whether a man can write an inscription. I say, 'Can he name a kitten?'" -- Samuel Butler
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2010, 03:56 PM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,648
Default

If I can I will. I have the Arrow 2M on the roof of the house. Just have to rotate it 90 to horizontal polarization, but I may be able to.

You OK if its a little later than 1700 local? Might take me a minute to get it all hooked up after picking up the munchkins...
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2010, 04:12 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 6,476
Default

I should be on the road about 5 in any case and probably about half an hour or so. I will just listen for your call. Do you normally use vertical polarization for your Arrow or is it part of a satellite system? Just seems odd to have to rotate a 2m beam into horizontal as that would be the typical orientation and it's me who's the odd ball thinking about 2m SSB with vertical polarization.
__________________
'91 Toyota Pickup
'09 Kawasaki KLR650
'12 Gunnar Rockhound 29

"They say the test of literary power is whether a man can write an inscription. I say, 'Can he name a kitten?'" -- Samuel Butler
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Seldom Seen's Avatar
Seldom Seen Seldom Seen is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch
Posts: 531
Default

On and monitoring 144.200 USB. Vertical but what the heck.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2010, 06:24 PM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
I should be on the road about 5 in any case and probably about half an hour or so. I will just listen for your call. Do you normally use vertical polarization for your Arrow or is it part of a satellite system? Just seems odd to have to rotate a 2m beam into horizontal as that would be the typical orientation and it's me who's the odd ball thinking about 2m SSB with vertical polarization.
I heard you pretty clear, about 5-5 when I was on the 2M larsen Vertically polarized mobile FM antenna. It was scratchy and the pitch was higher than I know your voice to be, but I could hear it.

Then when I switched to the horizontally polarized at 30feet on the roof I didn't hear anything. It was pointed toward Mt Thorodin, so I scrambled up the roof and rotated it SE toward Denver proper. I didn't hear anything.

The is pretty directional, so my first thought was that I was tring to get you off the side of the beam and my radiation was poor there. It also might reflect that the horiz vs vert antennas will definitely loose capability when not properly matched. Granted, a dipole and a yagi should be able to do QSO's all day long, but a dipole pointing straight up and down vs a yagi going horizontal might make that much of a difference.

It was good to see that we could talk for a farther distance on USB even with the vertical antennas.
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:08 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 6,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Granted, a dipole and a yagi should be able to do QSO's all day long, but a dipole pointing straight up and down vs a yagi going horizontal might make that much of a difference.
If your beam was pointed too high in elevation you could also be wasting signal strength for this close of a contact. With two ground plane verticals the elevation differences are somewhat less critical. I think the experiment warrants more testing, tho. I'm betting that there is somebody in Lamar, CO, trying to figure out who W0IIN might be. :-) In any case if the Monday night crew continues their aversion to using repeaters then SSB might be an option. Just have to get more people to get SSB capable 2m rigs...
__________________
'91 Toyota Pickup
'09 Kawasaki KLR650
'12 Gunnar Rockhound 29

"They say the test of literary power is whether a man can write an inscription. I say, 'Can he name a kitten?'" -- Samuel Butler
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:01 AM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,648
Default

I didn't have much time to play with the clarifier either, with keeping the little ones out of the street and off the roof with me. Plus, Tim stopped by for a minute so that put me in a mad dash to get the beam polarized and rotated.

It was the first time I had ever had a SSB contact that seemed out of freq. I used to listen to the RAG (Rotten Apples Group) on 7.238mhz at 0400 local time on my way to work when I drove the 80 all the time. Made quite a few contacts during a few month period. I only mention this one because I knew when and on what frequency for the net I needed to tune to to participate. Any other contact I might be tuning to what I hear correctly and it be a few kz one way or the other.

How would we go about figuring this out? Could it be in the speech processor? The clarifier is only for RX. Could it be the TX/RX carrier point setup for LSB/USB? Those are menu items 015-018. I know I have had to make changes to menu item 020 to make the HF antenna tuner work with the radio, I could have bumped the wrong one(s) and caused it to be off of the 0hz setting for the carrier point. I need to look tonight. It was distinctly different for your voice, much higher in pitch. Not chipmunk-like, but close.
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2010, 08:24 AM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
That is the point of the clarifier on the Yeasu, to fine tune out the drift. Also there is a menu option to put in a display offset to correct for this (not fixing the error but changing your displayed frequency). The clock stability is less critical on HF and becomes more important as you go up in the bands. This is also why AM, SSB and CW are typically used less in VHF and generally not at all in UHF, because even a fairly low jitter clock would vary too much and it's just not economical to build something that would be suitable. Also you can be sure that guys 20 years ago would have loved 4 ppm (or 0.0004%) accuracy on VHF.
Yes, but the clarifier is only used to do this on RX, and both of our voices seemed different to each other. That would lead me to believe that something is wrong, and not that I just need to fine tune your voice in for the freq. When KCYRM and I would do the HAM 14er event in August, We would do a little SSB 2M toward the end of the operating day and I never heard it like I heard your voice. It was a chipmunk-like sound, albeit not as pronounced. Maybe more like a helium voice sound. Not a SSB drift sound. The pitch was constant as I changed the freq a couple of kz up and down (which is what I do all the time when operating HF to see if the operator on the other end is on a even .00 frequency or not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
We tend to get spoiled by channelized FM radio or digital modes (where the carrier doesn't affect the information as much, IOW it's the relative change in frequency that demodulates the information and not the baseband as much) and forget that when doing long haul or frequency sensitive modes that you have physical limits you are working with. Single Side Band is hugely reliant on your carrier rebuilding because the carrier is suppressed for TX and so only the information is modulated. If your radio does not demodulate with exactly the same RX then you get the chipmunk or Santa Claus voice sound. This is all done in the IF stage and is why everyone wants DSP in the IF stage, BTW.
Which is why the conversion of most folks to a radio with SSB capabilities will be slow, if at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
I have the service manual for our radios, we could look into it but honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much. See if it happens with other contacts and if not, then it's just a matter that each of our radios might be at opposite ends of the tolerance spec. If you hear it talking to KC0YRM or KD0DHH, then you are probably a bit further out then me. This is the sort of reason that people might chose a FT-2000 over an FT-857, because the PLL that stabilizes the clock is better. But even an awesome clock that has 1 ppm is still only a in the hundred or so hertz accurate on VHF.
I'm not too worried. Just because we both have the same problem i wanted to see what might be able to be dialed in to make it better.
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-11-2010, 12:01 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 6,476
Default

Been listening on 144.200 USB during the ride in (0645) and home (1700) lately. Just saying in case someone wanted to try again. Today it will be earlier, about 1630 or so, though.
__________________
'91 Toyota Pickup
'09 Kawasaki KLR650
'12 Gunnar Rockhound 29

"They say the test of literary power is whether a man can write an inscription. I say, 'Can he name a kitten?'" -- Samuel Butler
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-11-2010, 01:48 PM
Caribou Sandstorm's Avatar
Caribou Sandstorm Caribou Sandstorm is offline
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,832
Default

I will try to remember Dave. We should be able to communicate pretty easy, since our homes are probably less then 3 miles apart.
__________________
Chris in Denver
01 UZJ100
TLCA# 18518
KD0IFE

Off Road Pics
http://www.Chrissandstormfj.smugmug.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.