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  #21  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:46 PM
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60wag 60wag is offline
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If the rec'd grease actually had a problem and resulted in high maintenance, maybe there'd be a need for the stuff. Even in full time 4 wheel drive 80s, the stock grease holds up pretty well and the birfs have a long life. Why would I bother with some soupy goop that won't stay where it belongs? I get the need for extreme pressure lubrication properties and maybe being submersed in oil can theoretically do a better job but again, the grease works pretty well.

I know many will disagree but I think of this stuff is like synthetic oil.... Maybe it'll make my engine (or birfs) last forever but if its contaminated with water and combustion crap, I'd just as soon do more frequent changes with the dino based products at a reasonable cost. Now if my motor has a hot turbo and a history of sludge problems, I'll put up the money for full synthetic as I do with my SAAB but why seek out solutions for non-problems?
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:40 PM
Tranny Frank Tranny Frank is offline
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Howdy Colorado Cruisers

This information should be in your FSM. What is identified as "Birfield Soup" is a form of grease in the #0 form.

This is what the enclosed steering knuckle has used for 70 years,

From a lube standpoint it is obvious that a semi fluid grease should be used in this application.
There is 0 advantage to using a #2 grease, in this application,
When I fist went on IH8mush, they told me several things about the design that either did not exist or flat out could not happen, I was confounded at the confusion and quickly learned it was intentional., Toyota 4- runner forum is the only place that will let me post the info, general discussion section entitled Mushroom factory,

Frank
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  #23  
Old 07-05-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranny Frank View Post
....
The article you pictured is for a Jeep of some sorts or a general automotive text book for American vehicles, not Toyota. Post information where Toyota has specified the lubrication described in the closed knuckle axle design.

I'm a Toyota MDT, all service information provided only recommends Molybdenum Disulfide Lithium based grease (NLGI No.2)

Why does Toyota recommend #2 moly lithium grease?
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  #24  
Old 07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
Tranny Frank Tranny Frank is offline
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Default Why does Toyota indicate to use a #2 grease

I have no idea, it is not what they fill them up with,
but dont feel bad most on-line Jeepers do not know about this stuff either, while the information is in their book from day one,

You see I have been bouncing back and forth from Jeep and Toyota forums, gathering information, to me and a lot of other folks its the same thing, with a different name
  #25  
Old 07-05-2010, 05:11 PM
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Tranny Frank, I know you've gotten a rash of sh** on MUD for posting over there. Now you're here. The thing you've posted is odd in that you make a point regarding closed knuckle joints and then post a ref that doesn't say anything about closed knuckle joints. It does mention sodium and lithium based greases as non compatible. Ok, are you still using sodium based grease in your wheel bearings? If I was driving a CJ-3A, maybe that'd be an ok choice. For the rest of us that are mostly driving vehicles with disc brakes, lithium based grease has better temperture (and water) stability.

The FSM for my Toyota Land Cruiser rec's NGLI 2 lithium based grease for both the wheel bearings and Birfield joints in my front axle. At a 140,000 miles (full time 4wd), one of the birfs was showing some wear so I replaced it with a USED one that looked better. Why would anyone want to use different lubricants for the for the bearing and birf parts when the same lube works just fine?

Where are you getting the NLGI 0 ref' ?
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  #26  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:00 PM
thefatkid thefatkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranny Frank View Post
I have no idea, it is not what they fill them up with,
but dont feel bad most on-line Jeepers do not know about this stuff either, while the information is in their book from day one,

You see I have been bouncing back and forth from Jeep and Toyota forums, gathering information, to me and a lot of other folks its the same thing, with a different name
Your talk is just that, talk. Show proof that Toyota installed your 0 sodium based lubricant in the LC front closed knuckle or wheel bearings. I have serviced many different models of wheel bearings with OEM lubricants and can say with conviction that they are lithium based grease with a higher then 1 lubricant thickness. Every modern Toyota repair manual has recommended NLGI #2 for wheel bearings and knuckle service. The manual for a 1967 FJ-40 didn't specify a grease for the knuckles or wheel bearings other then "general purpose grease", that model was a drum brake vehicle though.

Lithium grease is rated at higher temperatures then sodium (to help combat the heat created by modern disk brakes). Lithium based greases are recommend for high moisture areas.

Almost all automotive manufactures stopped using sodium based grease 50 years ago due to it's reaction with water. That reason alone should stop any respectable 4wd owner from pedaling this stuff. http://www.made-from-india.com/showr...ase_55113.html (just to prove it's not recommended for wet applications)

Don't feel bad though, you have been misinformed. Jeeps are not Toyota.

edit:I'll split the cost of a lubricant test on the next LC 100 front wheel bearing pack with you, just to prove either way........
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Tranny Frank Tranny Frank is offline
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Ok, drop points, the temp at which a grease will fall off, they can range up to 500 degrees.

many wheel bearings are lubricated by gear oil, large semi trucks, and rear differentials, this gear oil has a room temp drop point,

If it compleatly submersed in the lube it has no where to drop to, doesnt apply in this application,
The temp would have to get to the point where the oil in the grease will cok up by then you would have boiled your brake fluid and crashed


Water intrusion, while these types of greases are known for water washout, you wouldnt use it in a water pump, however this is not to be confused with the ability to absorb moisture and draw it from steel parts,

The area of concern with this aspect of the lube is the protection that it provides on the exposed steel ball, that is why it is recommended to rotate the steering wheel lock to lock when driving in wet and freezing conditions\

The #0 rating is found in the same book that told me of this grease I have never heard of, it also mentions to use a #1 grease for warmer conditions, all I can say is that it must have been cold when they shipped the 100 willies Jeeps to Japan in 1950, the Toyota BJ Jeep. because thats what the 1988 Toyota land crusier that I worked on had in it, a semi fluid grease,

I have a chip on my shoulder because I have been dealing with trained professionals with BS degrees.
If you wish to have straight talk on your straight axle, I will be more than happy until now the messenger has been treated poorly,

I have been called every name in the book, so I dont care, and rather to be expected in situations like these,

At some point you will tell me that you have known this all along.,

Thanks Frank
  #28  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:27 PM
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I think your '88 Cruiser that had soup in the birfs had #2 grease that was contaminated with gear oil from the diff.

I'm done.
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  #29  
Old 07-05-2010, 07:45 PM
Tranny Frank Tranny Frank is offline
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Default This applys

"If you know what you're doing, then you aren't learning anything." - A. Lincoln

Take heed from your quote, it applys here.
  #30  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:04 PM
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Frank, I'm just speaking for myself.

That quote only applies if you're trying to teach us something. The facts, from what I have seen, is that you don't have any proof of your claim. I'm not going to get caught up in the fine points of your arguments and suppositions (like, "all I can say is that it must have been cold when they shipped the 100 willies Jeeps to Japan in 1950"), all I know is that there are millions of miles that Toyotas have been driven on the lubricants that they were specified to use from TOYOTA - not some locomotive, industrial truck, Jeep (wrong vehicle and completely different design BTW) or other internet peddling "source" of information. You have nothing to teach us that we need to learn, you're not welcome here (in my opinion), and I hope the mods kick you off for spamming us. 60wag is right, BTW, about your so-called "'88 Cruiser" diff soup.
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