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  #11  
Old 09-27-2010, 12:25 PM
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Tell Michelle that I like her old school pictures of your repairs. They look like 1965 for sure.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2010, 12:33 PM
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I found good quality lug studs at Carquest. In Wheatland Wyo no less. Far better than Toyota OEM. Not their strongest suit.
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  #13  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:30 PM
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Alright here we go... all buttoned up and reading 40psi on all 4 corners. Looking forward to an uneventful 4 hour journey..
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:46 PM
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on a positive note you'll miss the stop and go traffic from grant to conifer.
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2010, 07:14 PM
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Yeah wasn't much traffic at all! made it back..
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  #16  
Old 09-27-2010, 07:29 PM
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Bummer about the studs. I've yet to break one. but I will get some spares. They are larger than ones found on other toyotas. I use a 4 way metric tire wrench. I've found the 3 extra sizes to be pretty useful on trail.
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2011, 10:12 AM
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I broke 4 more studs yesterday. The ones on the wheel that had the studs replaced last year are all still fine, but now I've moved to the driver's side, 2 in the back and 2 in front.

This is the latest chapter in my drama of trying to isolate and remove tire vibration. My Dick Cepek FC2's have never been completely smooth... they were pretty tolerable at first install, but I wanted them better so took it back to Discount for rotating/rebalancing last week. That made it worse- so took it back to them again on Thursday. Guy spent a long time on them, said he got each one to zero.. well no change. So then I'm wondering maybe it's a wheel bearing, upon inspection the PS front is actually a little loose I could get it to klunk if I shook the tire pretty good. So Saturday I tear it down just to the inner nut, give it about a 1/8 turn then button it back up. We then drive to the Rockies' game and it's even worse than before. So ok, must be the tire, the loose wheel bearing was helping compensate, but I took that away now I feel more tire?

So yesterday I go borrow some old bald tires mounted to LX470 rims from Texas Chris, they're round and balanced, figure if that makes the vibration go away then I've isolated this to the Dick Cepeks.. well about halfway off on the last lug I feel it get tight, then all these memories of last year start flooding back.. took me 1.5 hours to remove that back tire. What's worse is I had 4 off, but put them back on to take the load off this pesky 5th, and another one gets buggered up and ended up seizing on there worse than the first one that's stuck. Got a lot of upper body work in yesterday, and I'm out of WD-40. I'm using my "X" lug wrench for this too- no side load.

So I move to the front and wouldn't you know it, the side I didn't mess with yesterday also has two lug nuts seize. On both of them, I barely broke them free before I felt them tighten up again.. so wtf, it can't be my wrench, angle, technique.. these are just bad components.

Here are my theories (please feel free to challenge)

- Repeated over-torquing by tire shops is bad. I need to be more vocal about having them stop at 80, 85, don't run them down with the gun anymore. Maybe I'll print the FSM page and hand it to them? Or put stickers on the rims..

- Once over-torqued, it's just a matter of time before the right combination of stretched lug and stretched stud mate together in eternal bond.

- 6 is better than 5! Even if they are bigger...



Sure hope the Discount guy didn't crank on them a little more thinking that's going to improve balance or something, or out of spite for seeing my truck in there again a second day in a row. I'd have to think they're above that.. right? My plan is once I get my new studs installed (on order from Napa, will be in later today) and new lug nuts installed (on order from Napa, will be in tomorrow) I go back to Discount and give them one more chance to get the Cepeks to balance.. if they can't then we need to talk about a different set of tires. too bad my front brakes are all good, sure would be an opportune time to swap rotors.
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:21 AM
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I broke one at Camp Hale. Or at least noticed it after that. In the front PS. It it the first I've broken and the truck is at 220,000k. I ordered a few spares. They are the same front and rear. Exciting part about the front ones for those that are interested; You need to remove the drive plate, hub, remove the disk brake in order to replace them. I'm getting good at removing cone washers. I remember my first cone washer removal thinking "I'll never get these off." Now I have mad skills.
5 is not better than 6, I agree.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakman View Post
I broke 4 more studs yesterday. The ones on the wheel that had the studs replaced last year are all still fine, but now I've moved to the driver's side, 2 in the back and 2 in front.

This is the latest chapter in my drama of trying to isolate and remove tire vibration. My Dick Cepek FC2's have never been completely smooth... they were pretty tolerable at first install, but I wanted them better so took it back to Discount for rotating/rebalancing last week. That made it worse- so took it back to them again on Thursday. Guy spent a long time on them, said he got each one to zero.. well no change. So then I'm wondering maybe it's a wheel bearing, upon inspection the PS front is actually a little loose I could get it to klunk if I shook the tire pretty good. So Saturday I tear it down just to the inner nut, give it about a 1/8 turn then button it back up. We then drive to the Rockies' game and it's even worse than before. So ok, must be the tire, the loose wheel bearing was helping compensate, but I took that away now I feel more tire?

So yesterday I go borrow some old bald tires mounted to LX470 rims from Texas Chris, they're round and balanced, figure if that makes the vibration go away then I've isolated this to the Dick Cepeks.. well about halfway off on the last lug I feel it get tight, then all these memories of last year start flooding back.. took me 1.5 hours to remove that back tire. What's worse is I had 4 off, but put them back on to take the load off this pesky 5th, and another one gets buggered up and ended up seizing on there worse than the first one that's stuck. Got a lot of upper body work in yesterday, and I'm out of WD-40. I'm using my "X" lug wrench for this too- no side load.

So I move to the front and wouldn't you know it, the side I didn't mess with yesterday also has two lug nuts seize. On both of them, I barely broke them free before I felt them tighten up again.. so wtf, it can't be my wrench, angle, technique.. these are just bad components.

Here are my theories (please feel free to challenge)

- Repeated over-torquing by tire shops is bad. I need to be more vocal about having them stop at 80, 85, don't run them down with the gun anymore. Maybe I'll print the FSM page and hand it to them? Or put stickers on the rims..

- Once over-torqued, it's just a matter of time before the right combination of stretched lug and stretched stud mate together in eternal bond.

- 6 is better than 5! Even if they are bigger...



Sure hope the Discount guy didn't crank on them a little more thinking that's going to improve balance or something, or out of spite for seeing my truck in there again a second day in a row. I'd have to think they're above that.. right? My plan is once I get my new studs installed (on order from Napa, will be in later today) and new lug nuts installed (on order from Napa, will be in tomorrow) I go back to Discount and give them one more chance to get the Cepeks to balance.. if they can't then we need to talk about a different set of tires. too bad my front brakes are all good, sure would be an opportune time to swap rotors.

Over torquing in not your problem. 5 to 10 lbs of over torque (beyond spec) will not distort the treads on that large of studs. The lateral loading when going up a curvy mountain road will far exceed 5-10#'s over torque. In fact it's not uncommon for Torque wrenches to be +/- 5#'s. So unless you've had your T-wrench professionally calibrated chances are you already under/over torque! While Service manuals are a must have they are still calculated guidelines when it comes to specs such as torque. Since the author has absolutely no idea or control over the end user many specs have error allowances figured in.
You need to use anti-seize on the tread! WD-40 does not last and in fact is somewhat water soluble. Over anti-seizing can be an issue too because it can seal the treads and cause false torque loading because of air compression. I would replace all studs and lug nuts personally! Just swapping the stud and using the damaged lug is like putting a new chain on worn out sprockets!
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ben View Post
Over torquing in not your problem. 5 to 10 lbs of over torque (beyond spec) will not distort the treads on that large of studs. The lateral loading when going up a curvy mountain road will far exceed 5-10#'s over torque. In fact it's not uncommon for Torque wrenches to be +/- 5#'s. So unless you've had your T-wrench professionally calibrated chances are you already under/over torque! While Service manuals are a must have they are still calculated guidelines when it comes to specs such as torque. Since the author has absolutely no idea or control over the end user many specs have error allowances figured in.
You need to use anti-seize on the tread! WD-40 does not last and in fact is somewhat water soluble. Over anti-seizing can be an issue too because it can seal the treads and cause false torque loading because of air compression. I would replace all studs and lug nuts personally! Just swapping the stud and using the damaged lug is like putting a new chain on worn out sprockets!
I agree with you on the torque, and see your point on actual load vs. what the wrench does. I still gotta wonder what gorilla worked on this truck, that's 6 out of 20 that's I've broken now. if not over-torquing, what else could cause that? So in my quest today, it turns out this shop down in Golden actually stocks these studs... pretty cool guys down there. But huh, they see more 100's than anyone for maintenance and seemed to know right where they were on the parts shelf.. I'm calling that a testament to the 5 vs. 6 engineering decision. I still don't like it.

So I picked up 20, yes I'm getting all new lug nuts too. And yes, as long as I got it all apart, new front rotors, pads, repack the bearings... hoo boy.




, one of our favorite mechanics specifically advises against Anti-Seize on lug nut threads, as I learned in my other "broken wheel stud" thread... http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/foru...ken+wheel+stud

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wheel Ben View Post
I've never had one come loose at 76 (the ones that are supposed to be that) as with UB not having one come loose @ 90. Other thing, Make sure the threads are clean. "They" (whoever that is) say never put any kind of lube on lug studs. Usually this ok. I use regular engine oil on mine. DON'T USE ANTISEIZE. For lack of a better tech explanation is makes the threads too slippery and the lug will snap before torque is reached. Ask me how I know - numerous occasions.

Toyotas used to come with a little on them from the factory. 1st service while torquing wheels 1 or 2 would always break. Different torque wrenches. Clean the a/s off of the studs and they would torque every time - no breaky.

I think i remember seeing roger brown do a comparison test in a lab supporting this. It used to be on his web site somewhere.
I'm a little torn on the matter, but I've also seen him take tires off, looked like he'd done it before.. I'll probably stay away. I figure all new bits oughta get me another 12 years of life, even more if I do more of tire swapping..
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