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  #61  
Old 10-07-2011, 12:15 PM
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Rzeppa Rzeppa is offline
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Originally Posted by subzali View Post
Jeff, it looks like your 60 carb is a little different than my '77 FJ40 carb:

On my carb, the choke breaker diaphragm also controls the fast idle screw, or throttle positioner. This doesn't seem to be the case with yours.

By the way, this is different than a throttle positioning sensor. It's not detecting throttle position in any way, but it's rather holding the throttle plates open at certain times.
I don't think the choke breaker "controls" the fast idle screw. The fast idle screw controls the throttle position when the choke is pulled out manually by the vehicle operator. The choke breaker just opens the butterfly a little so the engine can get enough air to run.

And of course I know what a TP sensor does on a FI system LOL! I spent plenty of time with that on my daughter's 1985 4runner!

I had just thought maybe I was overlooking some subsystem or other as I tried to determine why my 60 sometimes stalls when you disengage the clutch. The conditions that my issue occurs is with the engine at normal operating temperature and the choke fully open, thus the choke breaker has no effect.
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  #62  
Old 10-07-2011, 01:42 PM
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My system doesn't work properly because my VSV is toast for some reason, but it looks to me like my CB/TP diaphragm operates like this:
-at idle there is vacuum acting on the diaphragm, so it pulls the lever for the CB, as you say keeping just a little bit of air running through the carb as soon as the engine starts pulling vacuum. It also pulls the fast idle screw up and away from the throttle linkage so the fast idle is not in effect unless the choke is pulled.

-at high speed (activated by the VSV), there is no vacuum pulling on the diaphragm, allowing the fast idle screw to contact the throttle linkage when the throttle is at rest. During deceleration, the throttle plate would normally be closed. According to my Emissions FSM, this causes an overly rich mixture. But because the fast idle screw is allowed to rest on the throttle linkage at high speeds (because no vacuum is acting on the diaphragm), it keeps the throttle plates open just a tad to even out the A/F ratio.

Again, I have not been able to verify these results yet because my VSV is toast, but it's what the FSM says, and when I manually apply vacuum to the diaphragm I can recreate the action.

I figured you knew what a TP sensor did, but your earlier post made it sound like you were chasing after something that wasn't there, and I wanted to clarify my meaning.
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  #63  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:24 PM
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Wow, lots of questions Brian! First let me catch up with some more photos and then I'll try to address your questions as best as I have been able to find out.

First, these pictures show my old bracket, as removed, and Dean's new bracket installed. My old bracket has a clip that holds the speedo cable, Dean's doesn't, so I might still repair my old bracket and re-install it. I think this is because in some years (like '76) the speedo cable doesn't go straight to the t-case; it first goes to a secondary speedo that controls things like the EGR maintenance warning light.
Wow, so this thread has taken a huge tangent since page 3. Getting back to the matter at hand, AHorseThief helped me the hole back up in my bracket (that's why I was in my grunge clothes at the meeting Wed. night). Now I just have to figure out how the big the hole is supposed to be and where exactly it's supposed to be located, and drill a new one. I already have new grommets to put on, then I can hook it back up and have the little hook for my speedo cable back again as well! One little step at a time!
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1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, Metric TLC leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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  #64  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:29 PM
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I just have to figure out how the big the hole is supposed to be and where exactly it's supposed to be located,
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  #65  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:09 PM
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Matt, if you would like to reference my bracket for drilling your new hole, I would be glad to let you measure mine...If you aren't in a hurry, I could do a pencil rub on the bracket, and you could get the right orientation from that...
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  #66  
Old 10-09-2011, 09:38 PM
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Thanks Kurt, but I have the one from Dean that I have installed and am using at the moment that I can measure
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TLCA# 13684
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1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, Metric TLC leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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  #67  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:49 AM
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An interesting update from driving around this morning:
-I drove over to RMC, going up Quebec, across on Belleview, then up Federal, and back. I was testing to see if the secondary would open, so when I was accelerating I was taking the engine up to 3500 rpm or so on each shift, and flooring it the whole time during accelerations. A few times I stopped and checked the paper clip I had on the actuating rod, and it wasn't moving

So I had an idea: On the way home I got on I-25 at Belleview and took it down to Arapahoe, flooring it and revving the engine to about 3500 rpm, even taking it up to that rpm in 4th gear (about 80 mph)

When I got home (a few turns off of I-25 off Arapahoe), I checked the paperclip again. It had moved!

So, moral of the story is that I guess the secondary doesn't kick in (on a vacuum-actuated version), until you have a sustained load at high rpm. There must be a time-delay factor there, like an orifice or something built into the system.

Anyway, when the paperclip did move, it moved about 1/2 inch down the shaft: see the before and after pictures:
Before:


After:
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Matt Miller
TLCA# 13684
Rising Sun Bio
1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, Metric TLC leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD

Last edited by subzali; 05-15-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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  #68  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:45 PM
L43dean L43dean is offline
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Default quest and associated paper clip

Is it possible that the clip is on snug enough to act like a restricter?
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  #69  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:48 PM
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No, I checked my theory about the orifices just now, and sure enough according to the diagram in the FSM they are there. So the carb has to see sustained high velocity airflow through the venturis before it will open the secondary up. It won't just open because you mashed the pedal to the floor.
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TLCA# 13684
Rising Sun Bio
1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, Metric TLC leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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  #70  
Old 04-08-2012, 06:13 PM
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Any thoughts?
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TLCA# 13684
Rising Sun Bio
1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, Metric TLC leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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