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  #21  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:36 AM
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Drew you're welcome to come stare at my setup if you want, we have very similar situations.
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  #22  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:45 PM
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I'm missing the humor here. I have a sub panel wired with aluminum, aluminum ground, separate 220 for a welder... And I live a half mile away.
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  #23  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:54 PM
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I'm missing the humor here. I have a sub panel wired with aluminum, aluminum ground, separate 220 for a welder... And I live a half mile away.
Thanks Nak- I am going to take you up on that. PM inbound.

Leave it to Kevin and Wes to turn it dirty...
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  #24  
Old 01-03-2012, 01:57 PM
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On a 50amp feed breaker to a sub panel. How do you determine how big (amperage) the sub panel can be.

Say I want to run:

220v outlet for my welder
220v outlet for my compressor
220v outlet for a future heater (possible)
a few 20amp circuits for lights and outlets

I am struggling to see how they all go through a 50amp breaker.

thanks-
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1976 FJ40 with some stuff and some leaks.

2001 Sequoia Limited with heated seats

My camping trailer build up thread.

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  #25  
Old 01-04-2012, 07:19 AM
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I talked it over with a City Permit Building inspector yesterday and everything makes sense now. I appreciate it Nak, seeing it in person comfirmed everything I was thinking in my head.

Drew
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My rig... "Maude"
1976 FJ40 with some stuff and some leaks.

2001 Sequoia Limited with heated seats

My camping trailer build up thread.

"You 80 guys are just a Sawzall away from nirvana." -Red Chili
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  #26  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Rezarf View Post
I am struggling to see how they all go through a 50amp breaker.

thanks-
The assumption is, you don't run everything at once. I don't recall the load sizing rule of thumb though... 80%?

I know you can get away with load sizing that might not make sense for your situation. If you are welding thick steel while someone is running a plasma cutter pulling air, while in a cold January day, with all the lights on and the beer fridge chillin'... you might have issues.
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezarf View Post
On a 50amp feed breaker to a sub panel. How do you determine how big (amperage) the sub panel can be.

Say I want to run:

220v outlet for my welder
220v outlet for my compressor
220v outlet for a future heater (possible)
a few 20amp circuits for lights and outlets

I am struggling to see how they all go through a 50amp breaker.

thanks-
Red Chili is right. The general rule is 80%. So, if you can only put 24 amps on a 30 amp breaker, 16 amps on a 20 amp breaker, 12 amps on a 15. Now this is based off of continuous duty, or more than 3 hours of use. A 20 amp breaker can hold 20 amps, maybe even 25, for a short time before it heats up. The rule breaker on than is motors. You can size a motor breakers much higher because of startup inrush current, and a 10 amp motor can trip a 20 amp breaker on startup... but I'm not even going to open that can of worms.

It seems confusing when you're looking at a 50 amp panel, and see 2 double pole 30's, a double pole 20, and 4 single pole 20's... thinking that will never work, but it does. whatever is on that 30 should never pull more than 24 amps, or the breaker is sized wrong.

I have a 50 amp sub panel in my garage that feeds a 22 amp forced air heater (EVERYONE should have one of these ), my 185 Hobart mig, a 30 gallon twin cylinder air compressor, a 30 amp RV outlet, a beer refrigerator, and all of my outlets. I never have any problems. The last solid axle swap we did, we had a guy on a grinder, one on a plasma cutter, and me on the welder with the heater running... nothing ever tripped.

Your panel rating will be determined by the wire and breaker size, most likely 50 amps. You could go 60 amp, but then you would almost have to use copper or you'd be looking at pulling #4 aluminum SEC, and that would suck.

I don't even think you can buy a panel that is rated less than 100 amps anymore. I would shop at Home Depot and get a panel that matches the brand currently in your house. Maybe a 12 or 18 circuit. You do not need a main breaker in the new panel, the breaker you put in your main panel takes care of that. Do not put the bonding screw in the panel, and separate your grounds and neutrals. You may have to pull a bar out of the panel that crosses over between the grounds an neutrals to do this, or you may have to buy a separate grounding kit. If you need any help, just let me know.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by black95 View Post
Red Chili is right. The general rule is 80%. So, if you can only put 24 amps on a 30 amp breaker, 16 amps on a 20 amp breaker, 12 amps on a 15. Now this is based off of continuous duty, or more than 3 hours of use. A 20 amp breaker can hold 20 amps, maybe even 25, for a short time before it heats up. The rule breaker on than is motors. You can size a motor breakers much higher because of startup inrush current, and a 10 amp motor can trip a 20 amp breaker on startup... but I'm not even going to open that can of worms.

It seems confusing when you're looking at a 50 amp panel, and see 2 double pole 30's, a double pole 20, and 4 single pole 20's... thinking that will never work, but it does. whatever is on that 30 should never pull more than 24 amps, or the breaker is sized wrong.

I have a 50 amp sub panel in my garage that feeds a 22 amp forced air heater (EVERYONE should have one of these ), my 185 Hobart mig, a 30 gallon twin cylinder air compressor, a 30 amp RV outlet, a beer refrigerator, and all of my outlets. I never have any problems. The last solid axle swap we did, we had a guy on a grinder, one on a plasma cutter, and me on the welder with the heater running... nothing ever tripped.

Your panel rating will be determined by the wire and breaker size, most likely 50 amps. You could go 60 amp, but then you would almost have to use copper or you'd be looking at pulling #4 aluminum SEC, and that would suck.

I don't even think you can buy a panel that is rated less than 100 amps anymore. I would shop at Home Depot and get a panel that matches the brand currently in your house. Maybe a 12 or 18 circuit. You do not need a main breaker in the new panel, the breaker you put in your main panel takes care of that. Do not put the bonding screw in the panel, and separate your grounds and neutrals. You may have to pull a bar out of the panel that crosses over between the grounds an neutrals to do this, or you may have to buy a separate grounding kit. If you need any help, just let me know.
Thanks man-

I think I am ready to dive in, I finally understand all the lingo... everything you said makes sense and is part of my plan. I am going to run 3-6 Aluminum with a ground to run the sub panel. I am going to use a 50amp breaker to feed it.

Tell me more about your heater, and or do you have a link? Thanks!
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My rig... "Maude"
1976 FJ40 with some stuff and some leaks.

2001 Sequoia Limited with heated seats

My camping trailer build up thread.

"You 80 guys are just a Sawzall away from nirvana." -Red Chili
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2012, 08:07 PM
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I bought this heater from Northern tool:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_595_595

Phenomenal heater. I'm usually in a tee shirt in 10-15 minutes. (Should be noted that I have an insulated garage door) Had a 5 foot baseboard heater in my garage before that, and it murdered my electric bill. This heater, I don't even notice on the bill.

They also had this model that I almost went with because it's a lot cheaper, but the reviews were too good on the other. Made to be free standing, but could be hung on a home made bracket easily.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5481_200395481

Not sure what the difference could be, almost same specs. maybe louder and worse quality? Is it cheaper because it's not designed to be ceiling mounted? who knows. I love the heater I bought, and it's very, very quiet.

Glad I could help, good luck.
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-'88 pickup - Daily driver, AAL's, 285's, ARB bumper, Warn winch, all around cool rig.
-'01 cherokee - 6" Long arm'd, 285's, ARB bumper, custom roof rack, electric locked D30, auto locked 8.8, trussed-plated-fortified.
-'12 Jeep JK - 2" lift, Skid Row skidplates, OR fab bumper

KFWD
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