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Old 07-30-2006, 06:53 PM
art hog art hog is online now
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Default Need cooling ideas

First off Im back on the forum but not as the 55 guy Im now Art Hog. I droped my earthlink.net acct. after 10 years and have chosen wildblue sattilite. Im surfing in the 21st century My new addy is arthog@wildblue.net
Next . Thanks for all the birthday wishis. As it turned I got layed off from the casino on my birthday. I don't want to go back, so Im going back to full time at what I know best. No Im not selling quarter pounds silly It's exotic dancing worked my way through school with it. NAW just kidding I never went to school. No realy Im firing up the printing press once again.
I do need some ideas on my cooling problum with the cummins. an elect. fan was origanaly installed. Once it was wired correctly, Blew the fuse when it tryed to come on, no realy, it still reaches 210-215 temps when climbing steep hills. the fan only pulls through maybe 40% of the rad. I have had one idea of a ford tarus fan, a 2 fan setup. and is it better to push or pull the air through the rad. I need to solve this so I can make it to Swine-O-Rama and the rally.

Thanks Terry "AKA art hog"
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Old 07-30-2006, 07:06 PM
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you will have to run it through a relay with the fuse before the relay, or you'll be blowing fuses left and right.
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Old 07-30-2006, 07:50 PM
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Rzeppa Rzeppa is offline
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Hey Terry, welcome back! Sorry to hear about getting laid off. I was too, but it's an opportunity.

A relay will make no difference to a fuse unless the fuse is too low in value. All a relay does is lower the current through whatever the controlling device is. All electric motors use considerably more current to get started than they do once they're spinning; in electonics we call this "stall current". It is normally anywhere from double to triple the normal current draw of the electric motor.

A slow blow fuse is exactly that: it will handle a short-duration overload but will open if the overload is longer. A slow blow fuse may prevent your fan fuse from blowing the instant the fan is called to action. While having nothing to do with blowing fuses, relays are always a good idea for running heavy loads from a low-rated controlling device.

Longer term, for your cooling issue, you didn't mention if you had a shroud, or whether you still have the stock pig radiator. A shroud may solve the issue by itself if you don't have one. From a physics standpoint, it is always better to pull the air through the radiator than push it. A pusher fan will always block some flow, and is more difficult to use a shroud with. It's all about flow through the radiator, and surface area. With the cummins, you probably have more heat to dissipate and may benefit from a larger radiator or more cores for more surface area.
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Old 07-30-2006, 08:43 PM
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The fan is working correctly. It just does not do it well enough. The stock rad is used with out the shroud and I was told the current set-up would work. The fan attaches with zip tye like things slid through the fins of the rad with a plastic nut type thing on the front of the rad. the fan rest against the rad. There is not much room for a fan and shroud. I've been told that the4bt does not produce much heat, In fact I might need a grill cover in the winter.
Ige, Do you have manuals for the 4bt available through your work? are there fans that bolt to the pully on the 4bt? I could build a custom shroud with that tpye of fan if there is room.

terry
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Old 07-30-2006, 10:31 PM
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Hi Terry, when you wrote that the fan is working correctly, you didn't mention anything about blown fuses. Is this still an issue or has it been solved?

In any case, Toyota uses shrouds on all their stock designs, including both normally aspirated and turbo diesels. As I mentioned, it's all about the physics of flow and surface area to exchange the heat. Toyota also uses a clutch type mechanical fan with all their current diesel offerings. I would be surprised to see a factory designed cummins powered rig, whether bread truck, UPS truck, etc., without a shroud and a mechanical fan.

I don't know whether the 4BT produces more or less heat than the 2F it is replacing, but clearly the cooling system you have in place isn't adequate, and I would suggest that a shroud would be the first place to concentrate your efforts, to get your existing SCFMs more evenly spread through your radiator than the 40% you wrote about. For a shroud to work properly, you will need the fan placed back somewhat from the rear of the radiator; how much room do you have to work with? An inch or two is what you should be looking for.

Something to consider when people talk about cooling ability is that sometimes they don't take elevation into account. For example, even down in Denver you are losing 20% of cooling ability due to the thin air. You are up at what, 9000 feet or so? You are down to 2/3 of sea level at that elevation in terms of what a given amount of feet per minute of air can carry in heat.

One last thing; and this also relates to elevation. While you do have the turbo, it's so easy to over-fuel diesels at our altitude. Over fueling is the number one cause of diesels making too much heat. What are your EGTs running? You may have to lean out the pump a little to keep the EGTs and overall heat production down.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeppa
Hi Terry, when you wrote that the fan is working correctly, you didn't mention anything about blown fuses. Is this still an issue or has it been solved?

the fuse is fine now. I put in a relay


. What are your EGTs running? You may have to lean out the pump a little to keep the EGTs and overall heat production down.

I think my EGTs are running about $16.50 a dozen


terry
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:54 PM
art hog art hog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeppa
Hi Terry, when you wrote that the fan is working correctly, you didn't mention anything about blown fuses. Is this still an issue or has it been solved?




. What are your EGTs running? You may have to lean out the pump a little to keep the EGTs and overall heat production down.
the fuse is fine now. I put in a relay

I think my EGTs are running about $16.50 a dozen


terry
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:58 PM
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Are you sure a fan shroud won't help?
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Old 07-31-2006, 08:40 AM
art hog art hog is online now
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I don't think a shroud would do much with the fan resting flush against the rad. I looked and there might be 6" between the rad and the motor.
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Old 07-31-2006, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by art hog
I think my EGTs are running about $16.50 a dozen
Turbo Diesels should always monitor for Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT). Excessive EGTs indicate excessive combustion chamber temperatures.
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