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Old 09-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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OilHammer OilHammer is offline
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Default 40 spring advice

Anybody ever use Denver Spring for custom leaves?

I have procomp brickride leafs in right now, but they have sagged out pretty bad. I was actually thinking that adding a thin leaf or two might actually wind up "curing" the lean and wouldn't necessarily result in a much stiffer ride.

Why not just replace them? I dunno. The ProComps are longer than OME, so the shackle angle is better and I think they have larger bushings.
They don't have the military wrap or "loose" clamps, but the clamps are easy enough to fix. The military wrap seems to be a great idea for these long desert runs. What happens if you crack a non-wrapped spring in the middle of nowhere? Bad things I can assume. Wonder if DS can add a military wrap spring to the pack?

My guess is that by the time I do all that, I would be better off just ordering HFS or OME (which are very similar in construction to each other)
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1978 13BT-40, 70 series mechanicals
1966 FJ45 lwb stock
2003 100 OME lift
1974V8J40, 1992FJ80, 1985FJ60, 1971FJ55, 1978FJ40, 1974FJ40, 1997 LX450 all long gone.
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Last edited by OilHammer; 09-16-2014 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 09-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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Would you prefer the standard Cruiser lean, or a level stance? You've seen mine with the OME's. Pronounced lean, and fairly vertical shackles with a nearly stock and unloaded 40 on 33's. But they ride very nice with about 200 lbs worth of gear in the back, so once you're packed up for the Swell it will ride quite well. Just put the heavier stuff on the passenger side.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:10 PM
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Many years ago I ordered some springs for a 60 from Merle up in Salida. What showed up was from Denver Spring. I ran them for a while but hated them - super stiff and I cracked leaves in both front packs. I ended up replacing them with OME. Maybe they can do a better job than they used to but I don't see them as a company driven to improve their product.
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:30 PM
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That's what I was wanting to know.

My experience with OME's was not stellar. Rode ok, travel was far better than what I have now, but they sagged flat and leaned in less than 5 years. For that kind of coin, I expect more.
The ProComps also leaned in about 5 years, but they didn't sag quite as much. I still have decent arch on the passenger side. What sucks on that kit, is the shocks. I took them off one day and couldn't believe how soft the ride was...just no wheel control. Heh. I bet you could pair procomps with a custom fox shock with min compression and a lot of rebound and prolly have a nice ride. Not too much tho...no stacking. These are pretty cool and probably less than $3,000 each. http://www.ridefox.com/technology.php?m=offroad&t=dsc


Oh, and it would be interesting to put it on scales and see what my balance is. I put the fridge on the passenger side, and I'm moving the awning to that side. Hard to compensate for my big azz, spare, batt, and engine offset to the driver tho.
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1978 13BT-40, 70 series mechanicals
1966 FJ45 lwb stock
2003 100 OME lift
1974V8J40, 1992FJ80, 1985FJ60, 1971FJ55, 1978FJ40, 1974FJ40, 1997 LX450 all long gone.
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Old 09-25-2014, 04:49 PM
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After a year and a half on the fence, I finally "settled" on the OME and ordered just the heavy springs and bushings. It basically came down to this:

Alcan- $1100 springs and bushings.
Pros- Longer than stock, any lift (I asked for 3"), military wrap, squeak pads, USA made. Cons- Not that spendy for custom, but they are custom and 3 hrs away. If something didn't fit, or failed, the fix can be painful. 4 week lead time. Shipping + tax

CC HFS- $1100 (HellIfIKnowBecauseTheirWebSucks) Seriously guys, time to put a normal web store up. There's a reason the HUGE companies out there do it the way they do. I even asked for just the springs/bushings and always got dodgy answers as if the person on the other end doesn't understand English. Rant off..
Pros- Longer than stock, military wrap, anti squeaker pads, look well made.
Cons- Dealing with CCoT. Shipping. That double military wrap might be an issue. You never really see that, and it mandates using smaller bushings on both ends of the spring (as far as I can tell). They don't sell a "heavy" version.

ProComp- $480 maybe. Sites say they come with bushings, but ask and they say disco'd. Might be more like $580 or $600 by the time you buy good bushings.
Pros- Longer than stock. Cheap. If I bought these, I could add leaves from my old Pro comps and tune the left side to be heavier.
Cons- No military wraps. Tight spring clamps. No pads. They pop and bang on mine now. These are thick leaves and likely make them a bit stiff.

OME- $650 springs and bushings.
Pros- Big fat bushings, military wrap, open clamps, available in heavy, anti squeaker, great warranty.
Cons- Too damn short. You have to run a anti inversion shackle, and these springs move your rear axle in towards the fender too much to the point of rubbing on big tires.
Somewhat expensive, but compared to custom or HFS, not that bad.

40's are going to sag and lean. No way around it unless you go to coilovers really. The rest of the solutions are pretty much band-aids. I figure since I bought the heavy springs, I can pull a leaf out of the left side once they start to sag, or add one on the left if too stiff out of the gate. I had these before, and they ride way better than what I have now, and flex pretty well.

Why didn't you buy shocks? Because shocks with "kits" pretty much all suck. Really, you can buy a similar shock on rockauto for $15. Think there's any margin in a shock retailing for $100? They are all a one size fits all approach, which ticks me off. I've been at this for a long, long time and tried pretty much everything. OME full kit, BDS full kit, Pro Comp full kit. All of them disappointed me. By far the best ride I had, was OME springs with "rugged trail" shocks. It made zero sense, but it actually worked. Also, 40 rear ends are not all made the same, so longer shocks are needed for late ones, and if you run extended shackles, you are changing it further. To me, it makes sense to go with a custom shock. Costs more sure, but then I get length and valving that make more sense for what and how I drive. We'll see how that goes...
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1978 13BT-40, 70 series mechanicals
1966 FJ45 lwb stock
2003 100 OME lift
1974V8J40, 1992FJ80, 1985FJ60, 1971FJ55, 1978FJ40, 1974FJ40, 1997 LX450 all long gone.
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Old 09-25-2014, 05:41 PM
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Fwiw it's worth OME shocks have never been sold as a 'one-size fits-all' based solely on mounting setup and length, rather they have sometimes 4 and 5 different shocks with the exact same length yet valved differently for specific applications. For example the new Nitro Sport shocks for the front of a 40 Series fit only a 40 Series, literally nothing else in the entire OME product line. I've found them to be extremely suitable. They are expensive compared to a single wall shock but your comparing apples and oranges really. About like comparing an OME to a Fox coilover
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilHammer View Post
40's are going to sag and lean. No way around it unless you go to coilovers really. .
not necessarily. i ran early (the 4th set produced, iirc) skyjacker softrides for a decade and never had lean or sag. i've seen a lot of 40s that don't lean or sag. a poor spring will, a properly produced spring will not.

and yes, the shocks sold in lift "kits" have sucked each time i've done that. they're usually throwing the cheapest shock they've got in the kit to keep the cost down to make the consumer feel they're getting a great deal.
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Old 09-25-2014, 10:22 PM
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And fox remote res is what I'm trying next Kurt. I realize there is quite a range in shock from standard parts store-emu-fox, and I'm not trying to compare them.
What I found is that, understandably, manufacturers are not really making new tech products for a 40. Too old and too few using them still. I'm a bit of an oddball in more ways than one. . I really want to do fox coils but I can't bring myself to commit the time or hack the truck. I plan on extending the front mounts though(as I did previously) and seeing how it goes. What I used to drive is totally different from these Utah runs and I need something more suitable for expo high speed work than crawl.
Kurt, I appreciate your comments on emu shocks, but the last two kits I bought have been compromises. I did an 80 and 100 series and they were not right for an unladen truck, though I'm sure with drawers and bumpers they would have been fine. My 40 is not that stock either....13bt, PTO, roof rack, fridge, tent, different axles....hard to pick a shock to work with my specifics.
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1978 13BT-40, 70 series mechanicals
1966 FJ45 lwb stock
2003 100 OME lift
1974V8J40, 1992FJ80, 1985FJ60, 1971FJ55, 1978FJ40, 1974FJ40, 1997 LX450 all long gone.
KD0PZL

Last edited by OilHammer; 09-26-2014 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 09-25-2014, 11:02 PM
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As far as shocks go I needed some pretty stiffly valved ones for my 60 and started on the rear of the truck. I did remote res bilsteins (7100's) in the back with the stiffest valving (360/80) they offer from the factory and it BARELY was enough. I only did custom shocks because the lift springs were travel limited by the OME's. Anyways, on the front I went with the stiffest valved OME shock since the travel was less and honestly they feel like the billies.

Both ends could still use stiffer valving though.... BUT the OME's in the stiffer valving are decent shocks and they seem to last a long time.

Problem is with at least the billies is that stiffer valving causes bent shock shafts (5/8" on the billies). I'm not sure what valving you are after though.

What valving are you looking at? What diameter are the fox shock shafts? What does your rig weigh loaded?

I'm around 6k lbs without camping gear but ready for a trip and full of fuel with tools & recovery garbage.
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:28 AM
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I won't have time to dig into picking one until later this winter when I can make longer front towers, so I'm just keeping the procomp on there for now. They are horrible with nothing in the truck, but I'd like to try them with the OME springs just to compare the difference on the spring first. Surprisingly, those procomps are decent when the truck is fully loaded down with camp gear.

Yup, I plan on weighing each corner, and since I have to pull the axles anyway, I'm going to do my best to get the unsprung weight while I'm at it. I'm fully expecting to see a left bias in the range of ~120lbs. The engine is offset that way, the battery is over there, and the spare. I'll plan on doing with half a tank of diesel just to get the average.

As far as which shock I'm looking at? Dunno yet. I really like the dial adjustments on mtn bike shocks and it makes a lot of sense to be able to adjust them without fully pulling them apart. Fox has an adjustable unit that does this, and they also have a nutty expensive DSC, but likely overkill for me. http://www.ridefox.com/technology.ph...&ref=lnav_tech
King has one for the dangler that's similar and may be adaptable: http://www.kingshocks.com/news/4x4/k...ler-jk-shocks/
Both of them are in the stupid price point enough that I'm tempted to just buy a coilover shock and just leave the coils off. At least that way if I change plans, I'm not starting over with anything shock or mount related.
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1978 13BT-40, 70 series mechanicals
1966 FJ45 lwb stock
2003 100 OME lift
1974V8J40, 1992FJ80, 1985FJ60, 1971FJ55, 1978FJ40, 1974FJ40, 1997 LX450 all long gone.
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