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Old 01-07-2015, 08:51 PM
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kurtnkegger kurtnkegger is offline
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Default 2F rebuild advice??

I'm ready (I think) to rebuild my 2F in my 77 FJ40. I did a compression test last year, and determined it had bad rings.

I've never done anything as extensive as an engine rebuild, so I'm asking for a little advice on parts to pre-purchase...a good machine shop that knows the 2F that will do a good job with out my specific detailed instruction....common pitfalls that I should be aware of before I fall in to it, etc, etc.

I figure I should get the head redone too, possibly with larger Chevy valves? is there a marked improvement with larger valves?

Just starting to collect data, and value the clubs input.

Thanks,
Kurt
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:25 PM
SteveH SteveH is offline
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You can find tons of great advice on Mud in the 40 or 60 forums for 2F rebuilding. I think finding oversize pistons may be an issue for that year 2F. OS pistons are not available from Toyota for that year block and aftermarket pistons may not be available, either. You may or may not need them, but won't know until it's torn down.

I have torn down a few 2Fs and have an '82 2F in my garage that was rebuilt, but the owner then drove it 30K miles without checking the valves, and 3 were held open and slightly burnt. Take heed. I really should pull the head and have the valves re-done and then figure out what to do with the engine.

From what I have experienced, headers may do as much or more for your performance than Chevy valves, so if your Toyota valves can be re-used, I would. I would also shave the head about .060 to increase compression overall. You may need to run higher octane gas after doing so, however.

Many people find that installing a later 2F from an FJ60 is cheaper than rebuilding and comes with later model parts, an oil cooler, better ignition, more available parts, etc. Obviously, the world is not awash in tight, used 2F engines, but I have found them with 180K miles that still had great compression and ran well. I paid $700 for one and it was a great purchase.

Pardon the rambling, but you have a number of options, both cheap and expensive, and it pays to study them all and take your time. If the truck runs well now, or isn't a daily driver, you have the luxury of time.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:56 PM
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I did this fairly recently.
I documented prices etc in a thread called got a 40 now it begins or something close

It includes prices for machine work and other details.

I have new o.s.pistons domed for that year 2f as well if you need them when it comes time

As it relates to the chevy big valve upgrade..
Probably not worth it unless your existing valves are bad.
Gunn was minimalist and conservative on the head work..mountain high will want to do the chevy valves no matter what. Those two shops were the most experienced i found when i did the research and of the two gunn was more reasonable price wise and timeline wise.
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Last edited by simps80; 01-07-2015 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:19 AM
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X2 on what Mike wrote above. And while oversized domed pistons are no longer available from Toyota, I did see where Spector had them recently. Last time I had an engine machined it was at Mountain High Performance, and Bill did indeed put Chevy valves in. I don't think it is an upgrade or really makes any difference one way or the other. A previous motor I did I lapped the existing valves and had good results.

Mike what size pistons do you have? 0.020 over?
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Old 01-08-2015, 07:52 AM
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I had a very good experience with Gunn for the machine work on my F engine rebuild. I took my block and rotating assembly in to the shop, discussed what I was wanting to do and had a really great feeling when they opened the price list notebook and the F/2F and 22R engines were on the 1st page.

I let them source the bearings and gaskets. Unless you are doing something very specific (i.e. your own design), I would leave it up to the machine shop to source parts.

In my case I was moving the rotating assembly from one engine into a new block. Going in I was expecting/planning the cylinders would need to be bored over, the crank and cam to be polished. I do recall, Phil was very upfront that in this situation after the initial measuring and inspection if there were any issues he would not do any machine work without first insuring he could source the parts and having a discussion with me. As it turned out everything went as expected - but I was glad to be working with a shop that knew my engine, appreciated I was new to this and made me comfortable about the whole experience.

If you do use Gunn, see if you can get one of the green knives; it is membership into the "Gunn Club".
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:59 AM
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Jeff: .040 os is what I have a set of
Phil Gunn is made of gold
he wouldn't let me spend money I didn't need to they know what needs done.
Gunn supplied:
cam
lifters
rod and main bearings
oil pump
timing gear on crank
gasket kit
he could only get later pistons for 80 and up 2f

I have the complete gasket kit he provided cause I bought an OEM kit beforehand if you decide to go this route
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:15 AM
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I've used both Gunn & MHP, and I think they both do good work & know what they are doing. I felt a bit more comfortable with MHP, as they seemed like a far more professional org. But both guys knew their stuff. For me personally, I wouldn't pull a good head just to do the Chevy valves, but if I was already having the head rebuilt, I would spring for the upgrade. It was like $150, and included brand new valves/seats/springs, etc... They are larger, so that they allow for more free flowing air/fuel mix & exhaust. A nice little upgrade for such a small amount of cash. They are tractor motors, so you are never going to see explosive performance, but paired with an exhaust header & a lightly ported/polished intake, and you will see increased performance & efficiency. Just my $.02...
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:08 PM
poudre1 poudre1 is offline
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I think I'm in the same boat as you. I have a -83 2f that is in a 76 FJ40. It spun a bearing and needs a rebuild. I've been quoted $4-5k. I really don't want to spend that much on this motor, so I've been looking for a 2f out of an FJ60 that has good compression. No luck so far...

How much did you guys pay at Gunn for a rebuild? Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poudre1 View Post
I think I'm in the same boat as you. I have a -83 2f that is in a 76 FJ40. It spun a bearing and needs a rebuild. I've been quoted $4-5k. I really don't want to spend that much on this motor, so I've been looking for a 2f out of an FJ60 that has good compression. No luck so far...

How much did you guys pay at Gunn for a rebuild? Any help would be appreciated.
that's about right if they do all the work including assembly.

the price can vary significantly based on what is needed -

a good guesstimate is ~2500 worth of machine work and parts for the 'long block'.

An 83 will be slightly cheaper because the pistons are cheaper. But now both pistons are more readily available than in years past the cost delta between 75 to 80 and 80 and up 2f's isn't that big.

That 2500 # would be basic machining (piston bore, crank turn, deck block and head, go through head, installing cam bearings, hanging rods and pistons, surface a flywheel), extras would be line boring, balancing, and any unknowns with the components. The parts in that would be aftermarket parts to include cam, bearings, pistons, oil pump, cam bushings, any head parts, lifters.

Extras not in that number that can add up quick are ancillaries like fuel pump, water pump, manifold work, exhaust, clutch, t-stat, starter, alternator, and any number of other things like preference for OEM on certain components. It's cost prohibitive and even not possible for OEM pistons, cam, etc, but an OEM oil pump in lieu of aftermarket isn't a bad idea. It will add up pretty quick.

But if I had to throw an "all in" number at it including ancillaries ~3.5 K and done would probably be close if you do all the work you can do.
I had wayyy more in it on the 'engine' portion of my project than that, but thats largely because A) I went overboard on a lot of things, B) I made a bunch of mistakes that are avoidable C) I started with a truck that had no motor to begin with.

the rest of that 4-5 K you were quoted would be the labor you'd be paying for someone to put it back together.

others may have different experience with it than that.

oh one other thing;

gunn won't assemble it for you, not a service they offer.

mountian high will assemble it but I think the price savings is worht doing it on your own if you can.

No slam on mountain high; they seem to be a quality operation, my only thought there is that they make their money on performance diesel builds now, so low buck toyota motors are low profit low priority compared to the high dollar high tech stuff they do on diesels that seems to be their bread and butter.

these aren't tight tolerance exotic engines, you do have to be careful but its not like a lamborghini v12
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:50 PM
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kurtnkegger kurtnkegger is offline
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Thanks for the great information! I'm not looking for the high performance magic wand for the 2F. I know the engine, and, quite frankly really like it! I don't know what work really needs to be done on my engine, as I've never opened it up and really don't know what to look for. I'm not afraid to jump in on this project, I'm just a little apprehensive to know exactly how much tear down I need to do, and when to stop...

I don't want to bring in some basket case project to the machine shop to find they might need components together I've already disassembled.

My estimated budget is in the 3 to 4 K range, so it looks like I won't be off mark by much.

Thanks so far everyone for your input, looking forward to more.
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