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  #31  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Farnham, how was it that you all were turned away from the Maze? Was there a gate down or rangers camped somewhere?
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  #32  
Old 10-08-2013, 11:26 AM
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We met up with a group that had been turned away by a Ranger outside Hite that wouldn't let anyone pass to get fuel. Presumed there was no way we were gonna get gas from Needles outpost and didn't want to end up on the wrong side of a locked gate with no way to refuel. Bike has a range of 120 miles, and we carried another 20miles worth in our pack packs.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2013, 12:57 PM
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ahh makes sense. Thanks
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:35 AM
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Nothing would change except the state of Utah would send the same people paychecks who are currently doing the work.

County In Utah Threatens Takeover Of National Park Areas

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San Juan County has become the fifth county in Utah to declare a state of emergency in response to the closure of National Park areas.

But the San Juan County Commission has also decided to storm National Park Service barricades, take control of some parks, and reopen them to the public.

"This is civil disobedience," says Phil Lyman, a CPA and county commissioner from Monticello, Utah, in the southeastern corner of the state. "What's happening to us is wrong."

The commissioners had decided to take down the barricades at Natural Bridges National Monument as early as Thursday morning but put off that move to give Utah Governor Gary Herbert time to discuss the issue with Interior Secretary Sally Jewell.

"The decision has been made," Lyman adds. "But decisions change."

San Juan County also includes Hovenweep and Rainbow Bridge National Monuments, the Island in the Sky and Needles Districts of Canyonlands National Park and the Hite Marina inside the Glen Canyon National Recreation Area.

In an emergency meeting Wednesday, the commissioners decided to mobilize Sheriff's deputies, search and rescue volunteers, firefighters, EMT's, portable toilets, garbage trucks and three mobile command centers.

At least 60 people would be involved, according to Rick Bailey, the county fire marshal. Bailey said the costs of the operation haven't been calculated but he said they're necessary.

"How do we let local businesses starve to death?" he asked.

The commissioners indicated in their Wednesday meeting that they are seeking financial assistance from the state of Utah.

Bailey says 70 percent of the county's businesses depend on visitors to the region's National Parks, Monuments and Recreation Areas, as well as public lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management.

Ninety-one percent of the county is state, federal or Indian reservation land and the county has a history of protesting and resisting federal land management policies.

The county is also as big as Connecticut and Delaware combined and the National Park areas involved in the planned takeover are hundreds of miles apart.

Kate Cannon, the regional superintendant of the National Park Service, has been kept informed, the commissioners said in their meeting Wednesday.

"We have been advised by the Park Service...that it is against the law," Bailey says of the county's plans. "They have not indicated that they would make arrests or stop people."

Trespassing in a National Park can trigger a citation that is then adjudicated by a Federal Magistrate, who can levy fines of up to $500 and jail terms of up to six months.

A spokesman for the National Park Service says the agency plans to issue a statement soon.

"We don't want to threaten or intimidate federal employees," an unidentified commissioner said during a recorded conference call. "We're not strong-arming anybody. We're just getting people into these places."

This weekend and early next week are usually very busy for federal and state lands in the state because universities and public schools have fall break.

In their Wednesday meeting, the commissioners said they were prepared to provide or clean toilets, collect garbage, conduct search and rescue operations, staff park entrances and provide law enforcement. They also discussed maximizing media attention and staging photo opportunities.

They agreed that they would explain their actions by saying "we as a county are trying to do what is in the best interests of the public."

Gov. Herbert told reporters Wednesday he's also prepared to marshal funding and workers to open other National Park areas in the state. He's asked President Obama to immediately authorize state funding and/or staffing.

"This is just...common sense," Herbert said. "And frankly we ought to be finding solutions to keep them open rather than saying why they have to be closed."
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
Nothing would change except the state of Utah would wend the same people paychecks who are currently doing the work.

County In Utah Threatens Takeover Of National Park Areas
why not? sounds like a better option than this one...

http://wilderness.org/blog/while-yos...mber-companies
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  #36  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by smslavin View Post
why not? sounds like a better option than this one...

http://wilderness.org/blog/while-yos...mber-companies
These bills would have to pass Congress and be signed by the president. Watch it closely to see who is running the show. Most of these things have been floating around for a while and committees holding hearings is nowhere close to impending legislation. I rarely believe anything the Wilderness Society or SUWA say at face value anyway. The issues of access, logging, mining, drilling, recreation and protection are IMVHO great reason to move administration to state governments. Blanket policies don't work. What makes sense for Oregon is less good for Arizona and makes no sense for Tennessee or Virginia.
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  #37  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:31 AM
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The issues of access, logging, mining, drilling, recreation and protection are IMVHO great reason to move administration to state governments. Blanket policies don't work. What makes sense for Oregon is less good for Arizona and makes no sense for Tennessee or Virginia.
total agreement
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  #38  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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I'm impressed they have the time to send out emails.

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Dear Canyonlands National Park Backcountry reservation holder,

It has come to the point where although we are still profoundly hopeful that a resolution to the government shutdown will occur soon we need to inform you of what to expect if the government is still shutdown at the time of your trip start. Here are the main points:

- The park will be closed.
- The Visitor Center will be closed.
- No trip starts will be allowed.
- We will offer a credit for a future trip if you have already paid for your permit and are unable to use it.

We will make every effort to notify you as soon as possible if an appropriation is passed. Media outlets will likely be the first to report
it so I would keep a close eye on the news.

A small NPS presence will continue to protect life and property to the greatest degree possible. The main point is the parks are closed and it is unlawful to enter.

This is a stressful situation for all of us. I thank you for your patience and as always thank you for helping us protect the park.
--
Canyonlands Backcountry Reservation Office
2282 Resource Blvd
Moab, UT 84532-3406
phone- 435-259-4351
fax- 435-259-4285
canyres@nps.gov
Canyonlands National Park
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  #39  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
These bills would have to pass Congress and be signed by the president. Watch it closely to see who is running the show. Most of these things have been floating around for a while and committees holding hearings is nowhere close to impending legislation. I rarely believe anything the Wilderness Society or SUWA say at face value anyway. The issues of access, logging, mining, drilling, recreation and protection are IMVHO great reason to move administration to state governments. Blanket policies don't work. What makes sense for Oregon is less good for Arizona and makes no sense for Tennessee or Virginia.
Total Disagreement. The Parks should be blanket protected. No matter what. No mining, no drilling, no logging. Moving it to the state governments allows too much lee way for opening the parks to business interests. The parks should remain off limits to everyone except the visiting public. IMHO.

Now, forest land, BLM land, etc... Totally different story, and I can see states being able to better run those lands.
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  #40  
Old 10-10-2013, 03:19 PM
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One universal policy that irks me is there is no single track mountain biking allowed in national parks. The past couple of years the NPS and IMBA have been exploring it but it's still off limits until a specific exception is made and only a couple of them so far (mostly the ones in Big Bend) have been true mountain bike trails instead of dirt paths. Just because it was a foregone conclusion that it would fail at Point Reyes doesn't mean the other millions of acres aren't suitable.

I see your point Isaac and I can't argue that the push to develop every danged inch of dirt into something is a problem. As much as I want it to be true, I don't think national parks would exist as such in our current economic climate of maximizing investor profit. National parks would end up looking like Disney Land. So that's a selfish view on my part, that a national park should exist despite that it would clearly generate better return on investment as something else. That is why I don't trust privatizing them in the reality we have now. But I think it's fine to allow individual states to administer their public lands how they see fit, which is going to end up with some national parks being even more restrictive than currently and some possibly less.

Further, I don't know that your assumption here is correct because we have state parks and trust lands that exist already and don't have drilling rigs and mining in them. As far as logging, the State Forest State Park is logged and the beetle kill over there is not nearly as bad as RMNP, which is just on the other side of the Mummy Range. The Colorado DNR still has to answer to citizens' concerns and highly doubt they'd have much support for allowing extraction (other than some logging or maybe even just fire mitigation) in these places. Afterall they are not wildernesses and they already do minimally fight fires, so they are not truly left unspoiled.
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Last edited by DaveInDenver; 10-10-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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