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  #11  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:06 AM
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Was the 4runner who broke doing this, that night?
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:06 AM
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This is why I'm still a fan of chains.
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  #13  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:24 AM
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Good points Mike. And yeah, it was a 100 not a Runner but yes, I do believe the front diff broke while using this method. We can speculate up and down if that was the root cause, or it was already worn, or it's the weaker 2 pinion known issue design anyway... but alas the load it saw on Saturday night would appear to be the proverbial last straw.

Matt hasn't been mentioned yet, but Seldom Seen was running chains in the back- he said it felt solid the whole way down, almost no wheel slip at all. Think he was about 4 or 5 in line, out of 11.
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2013, 11:47 AM
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I would have liked to try the chains. It's something I've considered for my truck (at least having them available to put on). But, I need to run wide spacers in order to make them fit with the 35s. Even with the body lift, I still touch the inner fenders on hard compression.

Josh has the 4 pinion diff, like I did. In this case and in mine when I broke, it wasn't the spider gears but the ring gear that broke. The carrier that the ring gear bolts to deflects/flexes just enough and the pinion jumps and breaks ring gear teeth. I got a good look at mine when I took it apart. Obviously, this may have happened on the reverse descent, or it could have happened during one of the climbs. A spinning wheel that suddenly grabs traction sends a shock load through the system and in this case found a weak link.

I'm convinced that as the 4-pinion type 100's get used/wheeled/worn more, they will break at the same rate as the 2-pinion. The carrier of the ARB or TJM (what I have) is much stronger/ridged than the OEM carrier and doesn't allow for that deflection. Plus, most of the time the person is re-gearing or at least installing new gears at the time of the locker install and more preload is set-up. That also reduces the chance of the pinion and ring gear separating.

You guys who have done this as PM on your 100 did it right. I had to learn the hard way. Nothing motivates learning something new like having to spending money.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:58 AM
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Here's a picture of mine.

I think the first break caused some loose teeth to bind again and break a few more spots. Just like in Josh's case, I could still drive and only felt a very slight clunk. It wasn't until I stopped and removed the driveshaft/flanges and spun the tail flange of the diff was I sure of what happened.



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Last edited by Fishy; 10-23-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
This is why I'm still a fan of chains.
Agree completely. I don't go winter wheeling without them.
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  #17  
Old 10-23-2013, 06:17 PM
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The action of shifting from forward to reverse with the wheels stopped will no more shock the driveline than reversing normally from a dead stop.

The larger issue here is spinning tires, as fishy pointed out. A few things to keep in mind:

Diffs are stronger in one direction than the other. Depending on your pinion orientation, you may have a stronger diff moving forward, or a stronger diff moving backwards. When you drive on the coast side of the gear, the diff has less resistance to grenading.

Second, with unlocked diffs, you are likely spinning one wheel. Not only is that wheel spinning twice as fast as the ring gear, it is getting 100% of the torque supplied by your front output shaft of your transfercase (assuming center diff locked, or traditional transfercase) where in normal operation, it sees 50%. That is more of a concern for axles, than diffs, but it is a common problem for open diff trucks.

Either way, I think the message is: avoid spinning tires if you can. It is necessary sometimes, but if you can avoid doing it, so much the better. Parts have memory. The more you stress something the more likely it is to fail the next time. By minimizing situations where you are torque loading one side of the diff or the other, the more likely things will hold up when you absolutely have to.

And, body work is usually more expensive than driveline work. Not always, but you can make junkyard driveline parts work more easily than junkyard body parts, unless multi-colored trucks appeal to you
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  #18  
Old 10-23-2013, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHorseThief View Post
Agree completely. I don't go winter wheeling without them.
They are good to have, but as with all things, they have situations (like the one above) where they are good, and situations where they are bad (deep snow, snow bashing), where flotation is more important than maximum traction.
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  #19  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:42 AM
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I'll definitely agree that anyone who completed the run did great and that chains were king! It really is amazing that there was no real body damage on any of the trucks that descended and that says a lot about everyone's technique and really highlights the fact that there is no one right way to get the job done.

As I read the experiences of guys "pulling a shotshell" I guess I could see a few cases where as a last resort (like a collision, cliff of doom, or insane deep powder) that it could be an option for me.

I still think that a tire rolling in the correct direction is the best way to maintain good steering control which is key for obstacle avoidance in general.

I have not done a lot of winter wheeling the last couple of years but I'm definitely reminded that a good set of quickly deployed chains would have been the safest and most prudent way to approach this descent (another item for my list). This is probably even more the case after other vehicles have polished up the slick spots.

Fishy, speaking of chains, I'm glad you mention the challenges of using them with 35's on the 100. I had never considered chain fit or heard it discussed before with regard to 35's on the 100. I'm trying to keep myself talked out of going down that road for now so this is a great point for me. I like the idea of 35's but I really need to focus on a number of other mods first so anything that keeps me from jumping into 35's is a good thing (at least for now).

As expected this is a great discussion, I love a good tech debate
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  #20  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:10 PM
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Chain fit is a huge consideration. I don't mind having chains on my 40 because if they rub (which they do) then meh - my tub isn't perfect anyway. But I have hesitated going to larger tires because without more lift the rubbing would be even worse.

Chains on any wagon is going to be difficult. Especially if the bare tire rubs at full compression the way it sits now.
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