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  #21  
Old 04-16-2007, 07:15 PM
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X3 on Wes' and Stephen's recommendations. Crimp connections are fine up to around a couple amps on a non-critical application. Having been in electronics design and manufacturing for over 25 years, including over 15 years of quality assurance, I would NEVER recommend a crimp connection for that application.

A proper soldered connection will be many times more reliable and many times more efficient (from I2 losses calculation and measurement) than a crimp connection. They do not use crimp connections in satellites and other flight-approved and space qualified connections, you shouldn't either!

As Stephen wrote, you must preheat the connector (after sliding the heat-shrink up onto the cable, well past the heated area of course!), then tin it and the cable strands generously with rosen core solder. I use a propane torch for sufficient heat for 2 AWG to 00 AWG thickness applications, a regular solder gun can't make enough heat. Apply the solder to the cable strands at the interface between the connector and the strands, feed it in until it's filled. Wait until it's cooled to the touch, then slide the heat shrink over the exposed joint, heat and shrink. Voila! A mechanically and electrically sound joint that will last as long as your Toyota!

PS, while waiting for the molten solder to solidify, do not allow the joint to move even the slightest, or else you end up with a "cold" solder joint, negating the reliability advantages of a soldered joint over a crimped one.
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  #22  
Old 04-17-2007, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rzeppa View Post
They do not use crimp connections in satellites and other flight-approved and space qualified connections, you shouldn't either!
Humm....

SkyLab
Space Shuttle x2
Hubble
Rocket scientists who don't know the difference between feet and meters.
Last and by no means least, it was the electrical connections that caused the cryO-tanks to explode on Apallo 13

Yea that really inspires confidence

Crimping is good enough for Mr. Toyoda it's good enough for me.

Last edited by Seldom Seen; 04-17-2007 at 02:18 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-2007, 06:44 AM
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Ya, actually, I used to inspect crimp connectors on flight avionics for Peacekeeper and Titan missiles/launch vehicles.
Mind you, there were exceptionally well crimped, and I looked at them at 30X. But they were crimped.
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  #24  
Old 04-17-2007, 07:52 AM
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Ya, actually, I used to inspect crimp connectors on flight avionics for Peacekeeper and Titan missiles/launch vehicles.
Mind you, there were exceptionally well crimped, and I looked at them at 30X. But they were crimped.
Bill, if you want I can find some of your old tested items laying around here They have so much crap in storage it is amazing.
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  #25  
Old 04-17-2007, 08:51 AM
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Naw, I saw all I needed to!!!
The funny part was, when LM (then, MM) contracted with Motorola to set up a line to produce transistors to 1960s standards - cuz that's what was qual tested! 5lb. 'NOT' gates, welded ribbon assemblies... antique row!
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  #26  
Old 04-17-2007, 06:15 PM
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I stand by my assertion that in this particular application, a properly soldered large gauge wire will be more reliable and have smaller I2R losses than a crimped one - mind you I am a big fan of crimped connections for certain applications, this just isn't one where crimped is better!

Several decades of failure analysis under my belt on this :-)
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  #27  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rzeppa View Post
I stand by my assertion that in this particular application, a properly soldered large gauge wire will be more reliable and have smaller I2R losses than a crimped one - mind you I am a big fan of crimped connections for certain applications, this just isn't one where crimped is better!

Several decades of failure analysis under my belt on this :-)

For winching, starting and other high load applications crimp(swagged) is better! Solder will melt right out unless your using silver! With standard lead you will create a fusible link.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2007, 07:57 AM
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I don't hear any wizened recommendations for solder & crimping???

For winch & other high-amperage, heavy gauge situations, would solder (silver?) and crimping be recommended? I'm thinking get it hot, solder it up, crimp it while its still HOT.

In the marine world, they swear by crimping and using high-quality, sealing, heat-shrink. Would this be because it is more difficult to get a good solder joint? I've heard that mechanical/vibration failure is the big concern with solder-only joints.

Keep in mind that I have NO real-world experience with this, just a bunch of web & book lern'n.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-2007, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hants View Post
I don't hear any wizened recommendations for solder & crimping???

For winch & other high-amperage, heavy gauge situations, would solder (silver?) and crimping be recommended? I'm thinking get it hot, solder it up, crimp it while its still HOT.

In the marine world, they swear by crimping and using high-quality, sealing, heat-shrink. Would this be because it is more difficult to get a good solder joint? I've heard that mechanical/vibration failure is the big concern with solder-only joints.

Keep in mind that I have NO real-world experience with this, just a bunch of web & book lern'n.
Crimp and solder would be fine. The key to any long lasting wire termination is heat shrinking! Solder (especially standard soft lead) will corrode in a moisture environment if it is not sealed. If you look at factory heavy gauge wire ends they are either swagged or molded but not soldered. When doing small gauge wiring connections the best (permanent) way is soldering and heat shrink sealing. The worse kind of connection is aluminum crimp connectors. The cheap aluminum used has very little memory and of course you are using aluminum on copper which is a catalyst for dissimilar metal corrosion. These standard type of crimp connectors are considered temporary or only intended for non critical connections.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-2007, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Ben View Post
For winching, starting and other high load applications crimp(swagged) is better! Solder will melt right out unless your using silver! With standard lead you will create a fusible link.
For winching, starting and other high load applications SOLDERING is better. Solder will not melt unless it is subject to the heat caused by I2R losses from an improper connection.

A PROPER solder joint will ALWAYS have lower resistance (that's the "R" in I2R, it doesn't appear that the forum text editor will allow the superscript for the square sign) losses, resulting in less heat than ANYWHERE else in the circuit, including the wire itself.

When designing and building 50,000 watt laser power supplies, we were taught to always solder the 00 AWG, but a few engineers thought that crimping might save a few bucks when manufacturing thousands of units. After a few mishaps in the lab, it was empirically evident that the soldered terminal made virtually no heat, while the crimped ones melted and burned up.

Crimping is fine for certain types of low amperage applications, but for high amperage applications a PROPER solder joint is ALWAYS better.
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