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Old 06-05-2007, 03:33 PM
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subzali subzali is offline
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Default 2wd timing chain/oil pan?

So I've got a '91 2wd truck with the 22R-E and I'm trying to replace the timing chain (175,000). If anybody has done this or is familiar with the undercarriage of this truck, I could use some advice on getting the oil pan off.

I took the torsion bar off and the crossmember, but it looks like I'm going to have to remove all the steering rods (at least a significant number of them) in order to drop the pan low enough to clear the bottom end bearings and oil pickup. Problem is if I do that I'll have to replace all the TREs as well. I'm almost thinking it's going to be easier to just pull the engine

Any pointers to what else I can do or to places where I can ask people who may have a better chance of knowing what I'm talking about?
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:17 PM
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Three Wheel Ben Three Wheel Ben is offline
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Flat rate trick - don't pull the oil pan, just pull the head. If I remember correctly (and its been a while) the 2wd are the easiest to deal with. If you leave the pan in you only have to reseal where the timing cover meets it.

hth
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:36 PM
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I was told to pull the pan because pieces from the guides can fall in the pan.
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Old 06-05-2007, 06:29 PM
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It was making noise (which could have also been my A/C belt which I found was missing a large portion even though I couldn't tell when I first looked at it - I thought I felt all the way around it and it was fine) and we had a mechanic look at it - supposedly pulled the valve cover and took pieces of the guides out of the rocker area. However it didn't really look like someone had actually had the valve cover off recently, and without really knowing what the guides actually look like from above it doesn't look like they are even broken.

I'm going to try and use a puller to take the TREs apart on the relay rod and then I can drop the pan straight down. I hope.

Thanks for the advice on the tensioner and from I've read Toyota is pretty much the way to go for all the other parts too, though some people have had luck with the metal-backed guides from I think enginebuilder.
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:22 PM
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Yea, you don't have to pull the head or the pan. The broken guide pieces in the pan aren't going to hurt anything. I have always pulled the head two reasons. 1) if we didn't and it came back leaking with a year we got to do it for free. 2) very good idea to check for electrolysis around the coolant passages, very common problem on 22re heads. Have seen it as early as 110k. Also you get a good look at the cyl walls. Have used engnbldr parts and highly recommend them. Only thing else I would use is Toyota.
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:54 PM
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Well I got the oil pan off, was able to get the pass. side of the relay rod pivot tie rod end to break free, and the amount that it dropped (while still connected to the furthest outboard tie rod) was enough to clear the sump and the bearings.

Just my driver side guide is cracked/broken, only the ear where the upper bolt goes through and one other piece broke off. Not sure if one of those was in the rockers, one of them was in the pan. Chain looks good, tensioner and gears look good, cover looks really good. So it looks like with a new chain, tensioner and plastic guides and gaskets I should be all set!

I didn't want to pull the head because my engine doesn't smoke, it's got good compression and power, no noises, it's clean, and plus I didn't want to have to pull all the intake and exhaust stuff off, since I was just here with my Cruiser about two months ago. Just didn't feel it was worth it at this time. So with any luck I should have it back together Wednesday afternoon or early Thursday, thanks guys!

And thanks too for the pics Dave, I don't know if you posted them in your rebuild thread but they are most educational! I'll post up some of mine when I get a chance.
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:55 PM
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Dave, that was awesome and most educational.. thanks for posting that.

edit: and well done Matt! almost there.. man there's nothing you won't take on..
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Old 06-06-2007, 07:47 AM
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Well I'm kinda lucky that I have 2 vehicles that I can kinda leapfrog working on. Hopefully after this the truck won't need any more work, however.

Dave, what was the approximate cost of your parts for the timing chain replacement? I'm getting about $380 for the chain, gears, guides, tensioner and gaskets. The chain is $150, cam gear is $30, crank gear is $50, tensioner is $65, guides are $26 and $20. Do these sound about right to everybody?
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1977 FJ40 2F "Brahma" + Lockright, tach, Warn 8274, FJ60 Power Steering, soon to lose the Sanden OBA to go back to factory emissions
1996 FZJ80 1FZ-FE factory lockers + Safari Turbo , CDL switch, cup holder, AATLAS1X leather, heated seats and JDM switches
2000 Tundra Limited TRD 2UZ-FE SOLD
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:17 AM
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I keep preaching the "replace the HG" sermon, so if this ain't what you wanna hear, change the channel...

But at 175K miles, with a somewhat unknown history of coolant condition, it seems to me that changing the HG is cheap insurance. I had a HG fail due to infrequent coolant service as far as I could tell, at 149K miles, and because it was a slow failure the block deck was eroded and I got to choose between a complete rebuild and a Jasper motor.

Also, regards the oil pan, my buddy pulled his in his rebuild. The PO had replaced the timing chain without pulling the head nor the pan, and the HG was nasty and weak around the fire rings, and the pan was full of tiny plastic gravel, some of which was in the oil pickup, blocking flow. His rebuild was due to a rod beginning to fail. Can't say if there was a connection. His block needed to be decked. Fewer miles than yours!

YMMV. Oh, and minitruck oil pans seal up real nice with FIP. Use Toyota Black (O2 rated, good with engine heat). And FWIW, my son HATES Felpro HGs, don't go cheap there.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
Thing is with mini trucks the prevailing attitude is cheap, cheap, cheap. This is quite a difference from Cruiser-dom, where the idea of price isn't as important as doing it right. So I guess that Toyota does not move a whole lot of timing parts and so the pricing reflects that. But it also means the price is the leader and finding good parts can be tough. They are out there, you just have to be careful.
Toyota also purchases their timing chain kits from others (mostly OSK IINM). They are all outsourced. Some mfgs. are better than others! Remind me to tell you about the dry timing belt idler pulleys I've bought from Toyota that failed in <5K miles sometime. Higher price does not translate to higher quality every time, though your point on doing it right is well taken.
Quote:
Even Ted at Engnbldr, who is acknowledged to be /the/ source and doesn't sell crap has had problems with tensioners in the past. Stick with Toyota or OSK, nothing else.
FWIR Toyota & OSK have about the same failure rate (very soon after install, thankfully, but all that more of a pain), but you make a point.
Quote:
About 5 years ago I would have added metal backed guides, but I've backed off that. I dunno if my experience is abnormal or not, but the number of plastic guides that have been in service compared to the very small minority of retrofitted metal backed guides seems to still favor the factory way in overall reliability.
You're not alone in that. My guess is that the 22RE startup rattle (before oil pressure builds) is the hardest thing on the plastic guides. I suppose that is the best case for the metal backed ones.
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