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Old 02-17-2015, 06:28 AM
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Default Objective Criticism Please

As many of you probably don't know, or care, I am a member of Rising Sun. I do care what you all think, and would appreciate your critical feedback.

I was involved with an interesting run this Sunday, 2-15-20015, on Yankee Hill with Front Range 4x4 and some others that I'm sure RS members are familiar with. I would appreciate the opinions of you all about what I should have done differently after you read the entire thread. Thank you.

http://www.frontrange4x4.com/forums/...anks-everybody
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:16 AM
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I'll read through it today. Dealt with the Stand Tall stuff on Sunday from an Admin prospective rather than a participant
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:52 AM
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No one can really say without having been there with you and known all the elements. Too easy to second guess form afar of behind a screen.

As a case study, if you want to review it, gather as many people as possible, get pizza and beverage of choice, and discuss like adults.

One of the things we do at CM trail leader training is discuss scenarios. it would be good learning if well moderated. Maybe even as a panel discussion somewhere.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:53 AM
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Seems that asking for input from Monday morning quarterbacks that weren't there is probably not going to net a great outcome.

Having said that, if you are looking for input I would recommend you be more specific in what you are looking for input on. I'm guessing maybe your decision to leave?
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Old 02-17-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inukshuk View Post
No one can really say without having been there with you and known all the elements. Too easy to second guess form afar of behind a screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
Seems that asking for input from Monday morning quarterbacks that weren't there is probably not going to net a great outcome.
Good replies, I'll just add that I agree with you both very strongly.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:14 AM
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AimCOTaco AimCOTaco is offline
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I'll read it. Is this related to the Rocky Mountain Rescue FB post I saw yesterday?...

I know and care that you're a member, I'm another new guy but you and I met under a broken truck on the spooky night run of 2013... where real friends are made.



EDIT: OK, I read up. Very interesting story as close as I could follow. I have been on runs like that but never with RS, a large and loose group can have a mind of it's own.

I agree that on any run you are ultimately responsible for your vehicle and it's contents. Other participants who are unknown to you are as likely to help as to hurt, there is a time to cut and run if you can't help but can evac safely with your kids.

Sounds like you headed home early with a 3 vehicle posse and the group knew it, sounds fine to me if that's how it went.

What this story really needed to be a non-event was more ham radio, some ham radio, and a little ham radio.
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Last edited by AimCOTaco; 02-17-2015 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:35 AM
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I've never run with the Front Range 4x4 group, but there are obviously people who I've been on the trail with who I like and respect. The Rising Sun trail runs are pretty structured events. That's just the way we do things and have had good success with this. Other crews may prefer to be less rigid in their organization of runs, and just go by the philosophy that it's just a group of friends out farting around and having fun. That can be OK too.

The one thing that I think would have fixed everything and made for a more relaxed day is working communications equipment. If everyone had had a solid CB radio (good) or Ham radio (better), you could have been talking the whole time when people were separated from the group. Even when intentions are good about keeping the person behind you in your rear view mirror, sometimes groups do get separated. Be prepared for this.

Having your wife & kids in your truck does increase your responsibilities. You bugged out when you needed to. That's fine -- happens to someone on nearly every run that I have participated in. I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
Seems that asking for input from Monday morning quarterbacks that weren't there is probably not going to net a great outcome.

Having said that, if you are looking for input I would recommend you be more specific in what you are looking for input on. I'm guessing maybe your decision to leave?
There were multiple RS members who were actually there.

These are some of the decisions that I made that I believe one should be critical of:

1. I assumed Ige knew where she was going and that she was headed for Yankee Hill. I went ahead to find her. Just to be clear, I am aware that assuming anything is a mistake, the run was botched at this point, I was improvising.
2. I decided to find the group and inform them of Ryan to get help with a recovery, not go with him.
3. I left because my passengers were worried and no direction was being taken.
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:59 AM
J Kimmel J Kimmel is offline
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Sounds like a lot of dramatic cat herding.

This is why I don't do unknown groups unless it's a structured group like CM. I've run across plenty I don't want anything to do with.

I agree sitting down for a soda and taking like big people is the best, or simply chalk it up to "not gonna do that again."
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:09 AM
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No matter how many runs I've made there is always some point at which the group needs a polite reminder to keep the person behind you in sight. But be polite about it when the issue is discussed on the trail because your all out there to have fun. Mistakes can happen and trail protocol can be easily overlooked when you are on a trail focused on driving. Just don't be the angry person that feels the need to bark orders and keep everyone in line.

My other issue is the whole HAM vs CB discussion that one is better than the other. I've noticed too many folks removing their CB capability and insisting that everyone has HAM. Well, not all of us have a HAM. I don't. I've not gotten to it yet. CBs are cheaper and more widely used and require a close proximity so any trail leader should have one. I agree a HAM is great and in an emergency situation but trail groups should communicate through CB. Stay close and communicate.
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