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Old 08-24-2005, 12:04 AM
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Default Hey Hulk!

Matt,
I am in the midst of trying to re-setup Bruce on the new forum, but the old avatar is too big. When I resize to 100x100 pixels, it then tells me that the image needs to be less than 20000 bytes. The avatar is something like 35KB, and looks pretty small. If I go much smaller than 100x100 it seems like a speck. The original started out at about 200KB, which is as small as my camera will take (Nikon D70, on "small" and "basic" setting). Am I doing something wrong? I use HP Photo editor (came with the printer), and I have a Photoshop tryout 2.0 (came with the computer). Neither will get me small pictures without losing all of the resolution. I saw you giving Perry advice on this in the trip reports, and as I need to do one on the triple bypass, any ideas?

Nathaniel
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Old 08-24-2005, 10:12 AM
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Lightbulb Using Photoshop

Nathaniel,

I'm not sure I know exactly how to advise you. If you send it to me I can probably get it to work. But here is a bit of advice anyway.

Camera advice: Even if you use the smallest resolution size (which is pixel dimension), I would recommend using the sharpest setting on the camera at all times for all pictures. If you need to save it at a lower quality (higher compression), you can always do this later with Photoshop. But if you start with a mediocre picture, it will never get better. Garbage in, garbage out.

Image Compression using Photoshop: When you "save as" a new jpeg (use the extension .jpg for best results), no compression is a setting of 10 (or 100 on later versions of Photoshop). A setting of 9 (or 90) will yield almost exactly the same results, but with a smaller file size. In the world of building web sites, I save jpg images at qualities ranging from 4 to 7 (40 to 70), depending on how the image looks at each compression level, the importance of the image, the overall size of the image, etc.

Cropping: This is the first step. Crop the image to a square size, eliminating the parts you don't need. If the image size is still 250 x 250, that's fine.

Image Resizing: This should be your next step. Go under the "Image" menu to "Image size..." You'll need to have the "Resample Image" box checked. Resize the Pixel dimensions, not the width/heighth/resolution (these are helpful for printing, but useless for screen display). It does not matter what the resolution is set at -- your screen displays pixels only. So change the pixel dimension to 100 x 100.

Save for web: If you have this feature (it comes with the full edition of Photoshop), use it. If not, simply "save as" with an image quality of 7, to start with. Under format options, choose either Baseline option, but don't use "progressive" -- it is not as widely supported.

HTH. Maybe Treeroot and I should put on a Photoshop primer at a meeting sometime.
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:50 PM
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Default I would get something from it...

because I am clueless with this stuff. I was trying to resize images by changing the pixels, and it usually resulted in a poor quality image. Never knew about the image compression. I'll try stuff and see what works.
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:07 PM
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Default

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Originally Posted by Hulk
Under format options, choose either Baseline option, but don't use "progressive" -- it is not as widely supported.
I didn't realize that. When you refer to support, are you only referring to browsers or are you also referring to other applications that render jpgs? I have started using progressive jpgs for my web site so people can start seeing the image before it fully loads.
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:09 PM
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Post Progressive Jpegs

These are probably fine for most browsers in 2005. But here is why I don't use them:

Some years ago, we created a web site for the @Home corporation (later known as Excite@Home). We used progressive jpegs, reviewed the site using multiple browsers and platforms, etc. Everything was fine. We send the entire site to them, they uploaded and launched it. It turns out that the @Home browser, which was a variant of IE, CRASHED every time it tried to view a page with a progressive jpeg. Which of course, was every single page.

I had the joyous task of re-saving every single jpg graphic on the site. And ever since, I don't use them.

I don't know if they will crash any browsers in 2005. But I know that regular baseline jpegs will not, so that is what I use. Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but re-saving graphics is tedious work.
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
I don't know if they will crash any browsers in 2005. But I know that regular baseline jpegs will not, so that is what I use. Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but re-saving graphics is tedious work.
Interesting. I remember @home was about the very first broadband provider that I ever heard of. Didn't they totally go out of business or get bought out or something a few years back?

But it's good to remember that not everyone uses the latest and greatest, heck I installed Firefox 1.0.4 just a couple months ago and it's already up to 1.0.6. This was upgrading three different computers from Firebird 0.6 and 0.7. The newest vehicle I own is my 1978 Land Cruiser. I have 2 computers at home, both running Win 98. One's got a Pentium MMX 166MHz/3.2GB/128MB and the other has a PII 400MHz/13GB/128MB. The slow one doesn't even have a CD burner, and they're both on dial-up.

You're not kidding that re-doing graphics is time consuming! One of the reasons I don't update my site as often as I'd like is finding time to format the photos. Anybody know of a free-ware utility that would go through a directory's worth of jpgs and automatically process and re-save them? I look at download.com from time to time but have never really run across anything. Supposedly, if you are running *nix you can get some open source gnu-ware that can do that sort of thing.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:00 PM
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Default Image automation

Jeff,

Photoshop allows you to record a group of steps, save this as an "action", and then you can automate the process on a directory of images, saving these to another directory. I'd hook you up with a copy, but considering the hardware you're running, I think you'd just be frustrated. 128 MB of RAM isn't enough to boot Photoshop these days.

Maybe it's time to hook yourself up with a wicked cool laptop and enjoy the new century. All that money you've got buried in the ground ain't gonna do you much good when you're underground yourself.

Yeah, @Home is history. They bought Excite during the peak of the Internet bubble, which cost them a bundle. Eventually they went belly up. They had some great technology at the time -- it's too bad they're no longer around.
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Last edited by Hulk; 08-24-2005 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 08-24-2005, 08:32 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
Jeff,

Photoshop allows you to record a group of steps, save this as an "action", and then you can automate the process on a directory of images, saving these to another directory. I'd hook you up with a copy, but considering the hardware you're running, I think you'd just be frustrated. 128 MB of RAM isn't enough to boot Photoshop these days.

Maybe it's time to hook yourself up with a wicked cool laptop and enjoy the new century. All that money you've got buried in the ground ain't gonna do you much good when you're underground yourself.

Yeah, @Home is history. They bought Excite during the peak of the Internet bubble, which cost them a bundle. Eventually they went belly up. They had some great technology at the time -- it's too bad they're no longer around.
As you've probably surmised by now, I'm not using photochop. I have Adobe Photodeluxe, which is the stripped down version of chop that came with my printer and two different Umax scanners. It doesn't have that feature, but does allow a 1 to 10 compression control as you referred to in your earlier post, along with progressive versus baseline jpg saves. As an aside, the software that came with my relatively new HP scanner totally sucks compared to the software that came with the Umax scanners. As we both endured the yellow streaks on our Umaxs, you know the Umax hardware was crap. But in my experience, the HP software is crap, even though the scanner itself is fine. <sigh>

I don't have $$ buried in the ground, and though I'm doing okay, I try to be prudent. My mom used to have a saying, which I still live by: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without". I got this computer for free, spent $20 on a modem and $75 for a used 17" monitor. It still works, but as you allude to, it is getting more and more frustrating. I scour the registry periodically with power tools making sure I am not having to load invalid keys so boot doesn't take 15 minutes, but at some point I have to ask what my time is worth. I am resigned to having to get a new computer for home one of these days, but as long as this one still works it's an excuse to put it off.

Next thing you know I'll be driving an 80 or (shudder) a 100 :-)
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