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Old 03-18-2008, 06:30 PM
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Default Improving gas mileage...not just for the 80s anymore??

There is a thread over on MUD about ways to improve the fuel mileage in an 80. Initially it was just a couple of folks (including Rick / Landtank) talking about some ideas...

Then a person by the name of SS_Storm claiming he knows of a technology that will provide an improvement of 50% or greater in fuel mileage, on ANY vehicle...

Color me suspicious BUT I'm following along and watching...Anyway, SS-Storm posted up a link to this page that has information on the technology. There are two components....The HAFC which is supposedly available now and which will take advantage of the PICC which is to be available later...We'll see

Anyone heard of this or is it just more snake oil?

http://www.preignitioncc.com/ps/index.htm
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:44 PM
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Idea seems like it could work. I'll let others be the guinea pigs though. if it does, I'd do it in a heart beat.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:01 PM
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I hear that this is a great idea for a better mileage
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:05 PM
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But seriously: I am lucky to get 15mpgs right now with the correct wind. So a 50% increase puts me at 22.5 mpgs. For that amount of improvement, I would rather go diesel and run bio then mess with a new invention.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:30 PM
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Its really not a new idea, and from what I hear it should actually work. Well at least the part that is avail. now. Basically what that part mostly does is split an h2o molecule dump the o2 and feed the H into your intake. Thus you have kind of a hybrid fuel cell vehicle. A buddy of mine has a home made version of this on his DD and he went from around 22 mpg to 60 mpg. The technology has been there for years, the oil companies just didn't want you to know about it untill now.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:28 PM
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Ok, so how much is the thing? $100? $1000? I'm in for a group purchase of one if it's at all reasonable.. Corsair we'll slap it on one of your trucks then you see how it does. If it bites, we get our money back. If it works, you'd be a fool not to pay the rest of us our shares and keep the thing. Then we all rush out and buy one. win-win, right?

edit: ok I just found the mud post http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-tuning-2.html. So $1000 for the thing, then a "professional" install? I'm a little fuzzy there, I'm not sure my mechanic has been to this seminar yet. Anyway, I'm in for a bill if 9 of you other guys are, let's put one in Jeff's LX.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nakman View Post
Ok, so how much is the thing? $100? $1000? I'm in for a group purchase of one if it's at all reasonable.. Corsair we'll slap it on one of your trucks then you see how it does. If it bites, we get our money back. If it works, you'd be a fool not to pay the rest of us our shares and keep the thing. Then we all rush out and buy one. win-win, right?

edit: ok I just found the mud post http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...-tuning-2.html. So $1000 for the thing, then a "professional" install? I'm a little fuzzy there, I'm not sure my mechanic has been to this seminar yet. Anyway, I'm in for a bill if 9 of you other guys are, let's put one in Jeff's LX.


Sorry, I didn't link to the thread 'cuz I was hoping the poster will start up a dedicated thread. I'm always skeptical of this crap but the poster seems to be gung-ho on it and plans to install it in his 80 and provide test data...We'll see. He "claims" to have installed it in other vehicles already. It would be to get a 50% increase in gas mileage. It would be even er to get a 100%+ increase like some of the claims state. I was going to watch from the sidelines to see what happens.

Honestly, my annual mileage is so low that it would take me 2+ years at the current gas prices to cover just the cost of the kit. I put together a quick and dirty spreadsheet that lets you input your MPG and fuel price figures for comparison (see below).

Cost as I understand it is the $1000 + installation. The guy said you can install it yourself but if you do the $$ back guarantee is voided. Guess they plan on certifying places to do the installs or something . Maybe Robbie would be interested? Maybe Christo could get Slee certified .

As for putting one in the LX...No can do. I have 18 months or so left on the extended warranty (yeah, shoot me but I had HG paranoia at time of purchase) and I'm pretty sure they'd probably frown on me doing this .

Now I do have a '97 FZJ80 we could experiment on though . Just don't tell the
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File Type: xls Mileage Cost Comparison.xls (21.0 KB, 89 views)
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Jeff Z. (the "not quite as skinny" one)
TLCA #17037
'97 LX450 - aka "The Whale"
'97 FZJ80 Antique Sage AE #267, stock
12/74 FJ40, 2F, SM420, 4" Lift, ARBs, 33" MTRs

:

"...anything else i can do for you guys, how about i wash your car or mow your lawn while you figure out your firewall system? I am now boarderline insane/unibomber." Kipper

"That assumes I'm even capable of pulling and stabbing..." Jacket

"I really like having a detachable unit." Beater

Last edited by corsair23; 03-19-2008 at 11:37 AM. Reason: updated spreadsheet
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:09 AM
art hog art hog is offline
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Would it work on a 4BT cummins? I could use 30-40mpg. And what would happen with running greasel?
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:34 AM
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Water cracking for fuel, eh? I can't quite put my finger on what's bugging me about this.

Hydrogen by aqueous electrolysis:
H2O + 447 kJ/mol → H2 + 0.5 O2
Breaking water into its elements takes about 120 watt-hours to split 1 mol of water. This reaction is quite endothermic. BTW, creating 1kg of H2 from water takes about 60,000 watt-hours by electrolysis and the general rule of thumb is 1kg of hydrogen is the same energy equivalent as 1 gallon of gas. If you assume it costs $0.25 per kw-hr from the power company, creating the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline by breaking water into hydrogen would cost about $15 for that 60 kw-hr.

Creating hydrogen by carbon monoxide and water through inorganic gas-water shift reaction:
CO + H2O → CO2 + H2 + 40.4 kJ/mol
Now this reaction is slightly exothermic, but has to be done at high temperatures, at least 130 degrees C. Something strikes me wrong about this, just not sure what. It's often considered non-economical because of the high heat required for the reaction, but I just dunno. Also this already happens in the catalytic converter, so you'd have to change that and the EPA and CARB isn't gonna like not having the nitrogen oxides converted into N2 and O2. Hmmm, what am I missing? Regretting that I slept through chem in summer session, too.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:56 AM
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Interesting stuff, I did respond to the Mechanics for install ad. I will see what is intailed to become a install and possiably a "tuner". Maybe it is snake oil, maybe not. I will spend more time on this later and give you feed back as time rolls on. I know If I got better Fuel milage from the cruiser, I would drive it more than I do now. For now, it is the Saab.
Anyhow, thanks Dave for showing how much energy it takes to break down water into it componets.
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