Rising Sun Member Forums  

Go Back   Rising Sun Member Forums > Other Hobbies > Ham & CB Radio Corner

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 07-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Hulk's Avatar
Hulk Hulk is offline
Cruise Moab Committee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Side!
Posts: 11,492
Send a message via AIM to Hulk
Default

Cell phones often don't have any reception on the trails we run. So they are worthless in the event of an emergency. CBs don't have much range, so they too are worthless.

Ham radios have great range, and with repeaters, you can get in touch with the outside world from many remote places. So it can be used as an emergency communication device.

Satellite phones also work in many remote places, so these too can be used as an emergency communication devices.

Where the Ham radio excels for our club is on the group run, especially when we have a large group or have two separate groups. If CBs had better range, we probably never would have moved to Ham.
__________________
Matt Farr, Centennial, Colorado | Webmaster: TLCA.org
1996 FZJ80 · TLCA #4189 · WØRDY
www.rustybrain.com/cruisers · my Rising Sun bio · Facebook · Twitter · Need satellite Internet? Check out: Exede Internet

If you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Evrgrnmtnman's Avatar
Evrgrnmtnman Evrgrnmtnman is offline
Trail Ready
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Colorado Mtns
Posts: 382
Default

I usually gauge Technology in the field by what the military is using, which these days is satellite communications. The military has always been in the forefront of technology, and these technologies filter down to the civilian use after awhile. For example GPS technology. Data is a very powerful tool to have even in the field, especially in emergency situations. From what I am reading there are more satellites that will be added to the network over the coming years making the coverage even better. Don't get me wrong, I can see why someone would want a Ham Radio. Ham Radio's have there uses, but my own personal choice is Sat. Phones if the cost is competitive with cell phones. I don't plan on trading my HDTV for a Black & White TV! If the $39.99/mth unlimited use turns out to be bogus, then Ham Radio for me would be the way to go for this application too!
On another note! I guess they don't make any more 5 Watt Portable or Fixed Auto Cellphones (Digital & Analog) anymore?
__________________
C.J. Bowen
"Self-Proclaimed Philospher"
Peoples advice is always free, but that doesn't mean it's always right!

88 Toyota XCab Pickup- Daily Driver
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2008, 05:56 PM
wesintl's Avatar
wesintl wesintl is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: in da house
Posts: 7,607
Send a message via AIM to wesintl
Default

all this technology you speak of and your still driving a 22re? You should at least be watching a color tube tv...








__________________
See you on the trail
WØREK
Couple o' FJ40's, BJ70, UZJ100, TDI 66FJ40,82FJ60,97FZJ80
TLCA#4180
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:17 PM
Hulk's Avatar
Hulk Hulk is offline
Cruise Moab Committee
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Side!
Posts: 11,492
Send a message via AIM to Hulk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evrgrnmtnman View Post
Don't get me wrong, I can see why someone would want a Ham Radio. Ham Radio's have there uses, but my own personal choice is Sat. Phones if the cost is competitive with cell phones.
All I can say is, you'll be missing out on all the conversation on the trail. That's part of the fun. Even if you're just listening, it's a good time.
__________________
Matt Farr, Centennial, Colorado | Webmaster: TLCA.org
1996 FZJ80 · TLCA #4189 · WØRDY
www.rustybrain.com/cruisers · my Rising Sun bio · Facebook · Twitter · Need satellite Internet? Check out: Exede Internet

If you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Evrgrnmtnman's Avatar
Evrgrnmtnman Evrgrnmtnman is offline
Trail Ready
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Colorado Mtns
Posts: 382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesintl View Post
all this technology you speak of and your still driving a 22re? You should at least be watching a color tube tv...

Color Tubed is probably newer than Ham Radio's??? But don't worry having the best of both worlds like my vehicles which just don't includes Toyota's is great! Where am I? Oops I forgot my GPS!
Anyway, maybe we can do conference calls via Sat. Phones
__________________
C.J. Bowen
"Self-Proclaimed Philospher"
Peoples advice is always free, but that doesn't mean it's always right!

88 Toyota XCab Pickup- Daily Driver

Last edited by Evrgrnmtnman; 07-12-2008 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Addition
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-12-2008, 07:06 PM
Evrgrnmtnman's Avatar
Evrgrnmtnman Evrgrnmtnman is offline
Trail Ready
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Colorado Mtns
Posts: 382
Default Here's a neat device!

Speaking of Sat. Communications!
SPOT Satellite Messenger and Personal Tracker
Name:  Tracker.jpg
Views: 67
Size:  29.6 KB

SPOT Satellite Personal Tracker
The World’s First Satellite Messenger and Tracker
ONLY $149.99 after instant $20.00 rebate

The SPOT “Satellite Personal Tracker” also known as the Spot Locator unit has more features and services than other Emergency Handheld GPS Personal Location Beacon units selling for over $1000.00

Never be lost, stranded or be in potentially in life threatening situations in remote areas beyond the range of cellular phones.

Now, with Spot Satellite Messenger you can send a message for help or tell family members, friends or the emergency responders where to find you using GPS accuracy regardless of cellular coverage. Help is just a push button away!

SPOT’s message and tracking functions enable users to send messages to friends, family or emergency responders, based upon varying levels of need and to visually track the location of the SPOT Satellite Messenger:

"Alert 911" button dispatches emergency responders to an exact location
Ask for "Help" button sends a request for help to friends and family
"Check In" button lets your contacts know where you are and that you are okay
The Spot "Track Progress" sends and saves your location and allows contacts to track your progress using Google Maps.
__________________
C.J. Bowen
"Self-Proclaimed Philospher"
Peoples advice is always free, but that doesn't mean it's always right!

88 Toyota XCab Pickup- Daily Driver
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-13-2008, 02:22 AM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,651
Smile Let me help you decipher this new vs old technology...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evrgrnmtnman View Post
I usually gauge Technology in the field by what the military is using, which these days is satellite communications. The military has always been in the forefront of technology, and these technologies filter down to the civilian use after awhile. For example GPS technology. Data is a very powerful tool to have even in the field, especially in emergency situations. From what I am reading there are more satellites that will be added to the network over the coming years making the coverage even better. Don't get me wrong, I can see why someone would want a Ham Radio. Ham Radio's have there uses, but my own personal choice is Sat. Phones if the cost is competitive with cell phones. I don't plan on trading my HDTV for a Black & White TV! If the $39.99/mth unlimited use turns out to be bogus, then Ham Radio for me would be the way to go for this application too!
On another note! I guess they don't make any more 5 Watt Portable or Fixed Auto Cellphones (Digital & Analog) anymore?
Don't confuse things here. The military does not have a big history of doing their own R&D. They did not decide one day that they were going to figure out how to bounce waves off of the ionosphere to extend comms range. And don't get caught up in the "I know they did this...". My grandfather, A almost life long HAM, worked for what was then called the Bureau Of Standards (now known as NIST) and was in the south pacific with many civilians helping the Military figure out how to bounce waves off of the ionosphere. The military wants to use cutting edge technology, but they don't come up with it very often on their own.

Secondly, your statement about HAM Radio as being "old" or "outdated" technology is false. I'll prove it. You say you use a cell phone? Guess what group of people largely developed that technology? And email, you say you want to access the internet and receive emails? Guess what group of people largely developed that technology? It wasn't Bill Gates. He just put it to use.

HDTV? I bet you use COMCAST. Problem? The data for HDTV is too big to be handled by the cable Comcast uses, and therefore you are paying for signals you aren't really getting(same as black and white). If you are doing HDTV, get an old fashioned on air antenna from Radio Shack and put it in your attic. You will then be receiving HDTV quality signals, for free. I have a tube type amplifier for my HAM station. It's called vintage.

HAM radio enthusiast helped pioneer the cell phone industry with the use of UHF two way communications. Email? It is what is today (not yesteryear) known as PACKET. Packet radio is a form of digital data transmission used to link computers. The most common use of PKT is in amateur radio, to construct wireless computer networks. Its name is a reference to the use of packet switching between network nodes, which allows multiple virtual circuits to coexist on a single radio channel. Packet radio networks use the AX.25 data link layer protocol, derived from the X.25 protocol suite and adapted for amateur radio use.

Basically Wireless emails.

It turns out that everything you do on the Internet involves packets. For example, every Web page that you receive comes as a series of packets, and every e-mail you send leaves as a series of packets.

CB and HAM are exactly the same technology. CB has been regulated so that every Bozo under the sun can own one and use it to transmit and receive. CB is HF. In order for it to be used as what we refer to as HF, the antenna needs to be larger than what is used on vehicles. Otherwise, the range is limited to what we see out of the CB's on our vehicles. In comparison, 10 Meters on HAM band is only slightly higher than CB (at 11 Meters) and with the right setup can work the world. Bruce Miller told us of the story where he had a converted CB rig that when used on 10 Meters he was talking to Japan from the Caribbean on 3 watts.

Satelite communications new? Not so. How do you think those phone calls on your "new" sat phone are made? Telepathy? They use RF (Radio Frequency) to transmit the signal to the satelites. Guess what? Not new to the HAM radio arena. HAM radio operators have been bouncing signals off of satelites since just 4 years after the worlds first satellite was launched (Sputnik). The first OSCAR (Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) satellite was launched Dec 12, 1961.

Last question. Why do you think it is called Amateur Radio? It is not because the users are not skilled. We are cutting edge thinkers who do this for the love of it. We try new things all the time. I will show you the newest QST magazing. It is devoted entirely to HAM radio, and probably has something in it that you may see in the future of communications. Bluetooth? Yep, it is in there, many years ago.

Sure, it is easy to look at HAM radio and think of it being an "old technology hobby" for old geeks who sit in their tighty-whities in the basement chatting ove the air with others doing the same. That is just to the untrained eye. Don't be fooled by what you may think is "new" technology. It probably has been around for years being used for free. Someone just decided to make money selling it. I don't ever remember a HAM telling me that they had to "pay" to do PACKET. I haven't had to pay to make a transmission yet. Sure I paid for the radio, but there is an article on how to make an inexpensive AM radio for use on the HAM bands that even today would cost less than the CB.

Sat phones may be something for the future generations of everyday Bozos to laugh at. Just like we laugh at pagers today. They may work. Problem is? They work like a Phone. And the equation that you have to know the frequency that someone is on to reach them on HAM radio so therefore it is less handy than a sat phone is bull gravy. We're 30+ years away from the rotary telephone but you don't equate that finding out what frequency is the same a knowing their phone number? All the sat phones in the world are useless without knowing someones number. Just because Ø is the common known number for someone to help you doesn't mean there isn't the same using a 2M radio (146.520 MhZ anyone?)

Hopefully that helps.
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-13-2008, 10:32 AM
Evrgrnmtnman's Avatar
Evrgrnmtnman Evrgrnmtnman is offline
Trail Ready
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Colorado Mtns
Posts: 382
Default

I'm not knocking Ham Radio's. They seem to pretty be fun and practical in alot of ways. I don't think any technology is perfect. Cell Phones have their dead spots and drop calls, but we certainly have to have them. I think Sat. Phones from what I've read have long ways to go, but I do like some options they provide. Until, I get all my information on them and am able to make a inform decision about buying one. Hey, I say stick with something that is proven for now.
"Groucho", very well put together information above and very helpful. I see some of these RV's these days with Sat. TV, Internet, Phone service, so the curiousity of the reliability and cost has been worth the investigation into these devices. GPS has proven to be a wonderful tool on the road, and I think any emergency device that can lend in saving someones life is probably worth it's weight.
__________________
C.J. Bowen
"Self-Proclaimed Philospher"
Peoples advice is always free, but that doesn't mean it's always right!

88 Toyota XCab Pickup- Daily Driver
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-13-2008, 11:48 AM
Groucho's Avatar
Groucho Groucho is offline
Rising Sun Ham Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 1,651
Default

The only point out of that long winded post full of examples was that HAM radio has pioneered these lifesaving device's technology. Equating it to "old technology" is perhaps a mispoken term. It is historically been around for 100+ years, yes. Just remember that all the technology you speak of uses the same basic principals, all boxed up in different packages. Radio Frequency.

HAM radio (VHF/UHF) has proven to be effective as a tool for communication on the trail, far exceeding that of CB. Its purpose is for trail comms.

Now if you were to pose the question of why are we still using cell phones instead of a sat phone, then you got something that compares apples to apples...
__________________
--Choose Wisely--
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Kiowa Kate Kiowa Kate is offline
Rock Stacker
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Raton, NM
Posts: 17
Default

Groucho,

Way to go!!! Your long winded response was well put as well as your second come back. Your grandfather would be proud. He did alot of work on the sat/nav and loran systems during WWII which is what has gotten us to where we are now with GPS. Keep up the good work.

Been around Ham radio all my life, just now getting to understand much of it, general license acquired. Still working on the code. Wish I would have paid more attention to my father many years ago.
__________________
Kiowa Kate
(Barbara Miller)
KE5TWP
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.