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  #21  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hayes View Post
That's just sad... Did you cry when she stopped driving Toyota's?

And do you want to have a M&G at her work...next time she is working??
M&G = Meet and Greet????
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2008, 06:08 PM
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M&G = Meet and Greet????
yup
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2008, 08:52 PM
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You know, that would probably work (draining the radiator, to get back on topic ) if you weren't on the way home from climbing a 14er and had to change it in the parking lot of an Autozone, or when the tensioning bolt was stripped so you had to change it in the parking lot of NAPA and be 3 hours late to work...

But I'm getting pretty good at matching the dizzy up on the correct tooth and adjusting the timing
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  #24  
Old 08-13-2008, 11:41 AM
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Carson,

I am running a 85 4Runner set up with the Marlin Ultimate transfers cases and his long travel suspension. For the most part I am happy with this set up, the transfer cases are awesome. The control you get when you are creeping in a super low gear is amazing, my wife loves driving it like that.

I think Bill mentioned getting a newer one than the 85 and I have to agree with him. You will save a ton of money by doing that, that is if you are planning to build it for some real rock crawling. When I build mine up two years ago now I cut the complete suspension of the rig. At one point it was just sitting on the frame rails and four jack stands.

The amount of travel you loose compared to the $$$ saved make sit a no brainer. Now if you want to buy the truck and wheel it ASAP with out doing a bunch of stuff the 85 is hard to beat.

Here are some pros and cons of the various years. I am sure I will forget some so others can pitch in or give their opinion.

1984

Pro Solid axle, carburated, cheapest of the bunch

Con Carburetor, no SR5 models to my knowledge. Rust

1985

Pro 22 RE (EFI), Solid axle, SR5 models, slap on some tires and wheel it. cheap 4" lifts installed in 2-3 hours. parts all over the place.

Cons 22 RE is short on power, hard to find, more expensive than newer year models if in good shape. If you do the long travel lift you need a newer rear axle $$ Rust.

1986-89 Pros, V6 power, more of them around, SR5 models with sunroofs, better interiors, has wider axle already and IFS steering box for future lift, less rust, possible Turbo model if found, auto tranny

Cons IFS suspension, V6 (Head gaskets), not to many power up options, auto tranny, more $$$ to buy, front gears are 7.5 not to many choices for a locker and strength becomes an issue, if lifted IFS problems with CV joints leaking/breaking.

My perfect scenario now that I know what I know.

Buy an 1989 V6 SR5 white 5 speed with gray interior. Cut entire suspension of and replace with Marlins hangers, National springs, Marlins cross over steering, 85 solid front axle with an Elocker, 5.29 gears, IFS brakes, rear axle converted to accept Elocker/5.29, Marlin Ultimate crawler box (224 to 1 crawl ratio if 2.8 and 4.7 used)

Custom tube work around the whole rig with mounting points for a RTT, soft top, Big open fenders, Rhino lining inside and bottom half, Half doors and full doors, Ham, CB, Nice stereo, tire carrier with high lift, two 5 gallon can holders on RR bumper also, lights all around, high output alternator, dual battery set up and wired for power front and rear, LED's and HID lights.

Well that pretty much describes Bill's truck, Cheeseman's, Leine's, and mine. Bill's is much nicer and more power, Leine's just needs a cage and cheeseman's is looking awesome. Mine..........well I have four different colors on the truck in the winter, still have the 22RE, not a SR5 but she crawls with the best of them.

In short I highly recommend the 4Runners If you are ever in the neighborhood, yeah like anybody lives close to me. Stop on by and take it for a spin, they are great rigs and versatile.

Sorry for the loooooong post

PS they do have the right wheelbase to make it up the Escalator
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85 4runner Marlin Ultimate 5" lift 40" MTR's Soft top and doors Towed to Moab by the Big Blue Whale, 07.5 Dodge Mega Cab Laramie 4" lift covered and chiped No more slow lane for me
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  #25  
Old 08-13-2008, 12:56 PM
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Everyone lists the IFS as a con. Here's some random thoughts on the subject from your friendly neighborhood delusional owner.

From purely a crawling aspect, IFS takes a third row seat to a solid axle. But don't believe the Internet wisdom completely. It can work fine and doesn't take a lot to make passable.

The key is add a rear truss and a beefed up idler arm of some sort. Add low profile bump stops and away you go up to about 31" tires. If you want to run 32" or 33" tires, install ball joint spacers.

NEVER RUN A BRACKET LIFT! At least on a truck you intend to wheel. If 35"+ tires are the goal, just do the SAS. Bracket lifts are usually at the root of cracked frames or broken front diffs. Just too much flex in the sub frame.

The 7.5 front diff is fine in the application. It's less overwhelmed in this application than a 8" is in the front of an 80 series. The outer CV joint is just as strong as a solid axle Birfield, although the inner CV joint does need to be limited to how far you push it. When they say the max angle on the inner joint is 22 degrees, that's a hard limit. There's not a lot of margin in the travel on that joint. Within it's range of motion, it's fine, pushed to the limit of it's travel, it will break.

In some ways the IFS trucks are better. Other than the idler it's got significantly better steering, for one. The IFS trucks, even the 4 cylinder, have better brakes. But the IFS V6 brakes are about as good as any brakes on any truck.

It's when you go to 33x12.50 or taller tires, then IFS is simply over matched and there's not much you can do to work around it. But my suspension cycled reasonably well on the Rubicon and I have much too stiff torsion bars. No CV grenades, no broken ball joints, no blown tie rod ends. What I DID break were leaf springs...

The 7.5 inch diff has an ARB Air Locker, True Trac, Lock Right, EZ Locker or the Toyota Supra limited slip available. It's not really an issue, most people are gonna do an Air Locker or LSD in the front anyway. If someone does a Lock Right, they eventually do the ARB...

Isaac's truck does pretty good in the rocks, too. It's all about bounding the build. Stick to 33x10.50 or smaller tires, IFS is pretty easy to make reliable, although it will never flex as well as a solid axle. OTOH, they ride nice on dirt roads and highways. So it's trade-off.

The 3VZ does not make much more power than a 22R-E and is generally regarded as second class. I personally have never owned one, but have always thought it got a bad rap, Rudy's seems to last OK and he is not kind to his motor. Shrug. The reason in my mind to get a 3.0L truck is that they are easier to swap to a 3.4L if that's what you want. Otherwise, embrace the slowness and opt for the 22R-E.

So there you go, representing for the IFS posse. I think for whatever reason, everyone's convinced that IFS is junk and it's not. It has a limit and it's not easy to go way beyond those limits. You can lift a solid axle truck 4" or 6" pretty easily and fit 35" or 37" tires, where as 2" is about the limit with IFS and so that makes 33" tires is pretty much the maximum.

The main way to significantly improve stock IFS is a long travel conversion. This is no cheaper than a SAS, but does achieve a lot of the same goals. It has advantages over a SAS, primarily in ride quality on less improved roads and will hold it's own on many technical trails. Still, it's not quite a substitute for an SAS. But having 12" of wheel travel makes them attractive.
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  #26  
Old 08-13-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveInDenver View Post
Everyone lists the IFS as a con.

[FONT="Century Gothic"]I was just keeping it simple, IFS works for many. I ran my 91 4runner with IFS up pritchett canyon, made everything except for the "Rock Pile" [/font]



The 7.5 inch diff has an ARB Air Locker, True Trac, Lock Right, EZ Locker or the Toyota Supra limited slip available. It's not really an issue, most people are gonna do an Air Locker or LSD in the front anyway. If someone does a Lock Right, they eventually do the ARB...

There are more options for front lockers but I still believe with the 7.5 ring that locking the front only increases the breakage percentage. DAMHIK




So there you go, representing for the IFS posse. I think for whatever reason, every one's convinced that IFS is junk and it's not.

Not junk, but when looking for 4runners most will look for the solid vs the IFS. IFS will get you nearly anywhere you want to go, in comfort too but.........when you look in your crystal ball and you see 37's then you also see a solid axle attached to it.

The main way to significantly improve stock IFS is a long travel conversion. This is no cheaper than a SAS, but does achieve a lot of the same goals. .
Long travel kits are great, very expensive too like you said. I guess you also need to look at the fact if it is a daily driver or a weekend warrior.

We all have our opinions on IFS or solid, auto vs manual, gearing vs power etc. I tried to give him the general idea of what some owners do with their 4Runners/mini trucks. Of course $$$ is the greatest decision maker of all, I have a hard time building up an IFS only to go to a solid axle later so I would advice someone to start of solid or cut and swap to solid. About the same $$$ as a good IFS lift with long travel, maybe less.

Dave not knocking you BTW, just clarifying some of my views. I ran IFS for 8 years and conquered many tough trails.
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Originally Posted by RockRunner;
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TLCA #6136
Going under the knife again !

85 4runner Marlin Ultimate 5" lift 40" MTR's Soft top and doors Towed to Moab by the Big Blue Whale, 07.5 Dodge Mega Cab Laramie 4" lift covered and chiped No more slow lane for me
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  #27  
Old 08-13-2008, 03:17 PM
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If you ask on this forum, Bill, Isaac and Dave will give you pretty much all you need to know about minitrucks!
I'm hurt you would forget about me...
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"Did you know the IFS was designed by Hitler himself to make the life of 4WD owners tough? Yeah, it's true, he saw a vision of the Devil and he told him to do it." -DaveInDenver
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2008, 03:24 PM
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I knew someone would say it...sorry Squishy! And Cheeseman, and leiniesred, and Rockrunner, and everybody else I can't remember at the moment...
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  #29  
Old 08-13-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzali View Post
I knew someone would say it...sorry Squishy! And Cheeseman, and leiniesred, and Rockrunner, and everybody else I can't remember at the moment...
It's OK, mini trucks are pretty much below the radar (pun intended) to you Cruiser guys. We are only useful when you need a beer and parts run, otherwise Hilux-what?
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  #30  
Old 08-13-2008, 04:45 PM
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I just want to point out that in many cases the IFS steering box, even on an IFS truck is moved further forward to get just a bit more wheelbase... you often beef up the frame when doing this, just like you would for an 85...
You also generally end up spending the extra for High steer arms to move everything up high in either rig, so i don't see where it is that much more expensive to build the 85 than swapping in a Solid Axle on an 86 + rig...

to convert the IFS you buy a front axle... to convert an 85 you buy a rear axle (which are generally cheaper, and easy to bolt up), and IFS steering box.. and it is not required to initially swap the rear axle to get a good performing truck and do that swap later if you are tight on funds..

The 85 did come in an SR5 with the sun roof and many of the bells and whistles.
The 22RE is a factor especially once you start getting into the larger tires, but is one of the most dependable engines ever put out by Toyota.

I love my 85 runner, and am building another 85 runner for my brother
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