Rising Sun Member Forums  

Go Back   Rising Sun Member Forums > Other Hobbies > The Bike Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-13-2016, 08:10 PM
ScaldedDog's Avatar
ScaldedDog ScaldedDog is online now
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 719
Default Converting 3x to 1x

Had an epic ride in Vail today with my 3x 575, but the derailleur is still goofed up. I'm thinking of converting it to 1x11. I think I'll have similar low gearing to my current 22/34 with a 30/45.

What's involved in this swap? I have 11 year old XT shifters and front derailleur and cranks, and XTR stuff in back. Can Amy of it be reused?

Mark
__________________
''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools,
because they have to say something.'' - Plato

http://www.scaldeddog.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-13-2016, 10:04 PM
Corbet's Avatar
Corbet Corbet is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Durango, Colorado
Posts: 4,516
Default

I'm no expert on the new drive trains but I think you'll be in it for the following:

Front chainring
Chain
Cassette
Rear hub and spokes (or whole wheel)
Rear derailleur
Derailleur cable
Shifter
Maybe some grips

The cassette body on the hub is the big question. Not sure if they made those longer for the 11 speed or is the new cassette spacing just that much tighter.

I demoed a bike a couple weeks ago with a 1x11 and liked it. Pushing the 30/42 was not as low as my old bike but part of it was the 29 vs 26" wheels. I was able to do all the climbs on that trail but it was not the steepest test around by far.
__________________
Speski OffRoad LTD, Cargo Solutions for Toyota 4x4's http://www.SpeskiOffRoad.com
"80 series, with a fridge"
1976 FJ40, Project with little progress.
2004 Starcraft 10RT

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-14-2016, 08:26 AM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default Converting 3x to 1x

Shimano hub bodies are the same up to 12 speeds so no worries there. The gear spacing tightens up with each step up from 7/8 thru 12 so chains are not the same. Shimano only does 11 speed on MTB so far.

You may be able to reuse the cranks. Are yours external bearing, splined or still tapered? Just wondering the bolt circle. You need a 104 outer to run small rings well but there are ways around things. But most everything else doesn't do you much good. You may need a new chain ring on the cranks though not strictly speaking if gearing works. The wide-narrow rings do help.

If you stick with Shimano you can only do a 42 in back. SRAM has the 50 and aftermarket can do 50, like with One Up. I've only used Wolf Tooth components with exception of One Up derailleur plates.

I've done a few conversion so if you want to meet up this week let me know. If you have a budget in mind that's a good starting place. I don't have experience with 50 but 40 conversions work well on 10 and 42 can work OK.

You essentially need a whole system. Now I will say many people run 1x9 and 1x10 with stock cassettes. You can rig up 10 speeds with 40 and 42 rear pretty easily.

If you're starting with 2x10 the conversion to wide range 1x is about $200 (giant cog, wise-narrow ring, goat link or plates). Coming from 3x9 it will be quite a bit more. I would recommend a M8000 XT rear derailleur in any case, 10 or 11. You can find 10 speed shifters still and doing this will be cheaper. I just put gears back on my REEB and found a XTR 10 speed right shifter for $70. But if you're spending money and don't already have 10 speed stuff I'd suggest going to 11 for shifter, derailleur, chain, cassette and fill gaps in other places.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-14-2016, 08:29 AM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default Converting 3x to 1x

BTW SRAM and Shimano do not use the same hub body anymore. So if you want to keep your hubs then you will need a Shimano cassette, it's fine to mix components.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:39 AM
ScaldedDog's Avatar
ScaldedDog ScaldedDog is online now
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 719
Default

Thanks guys! Dave I might take you up on that. I think I have extern bearings, but am not certain. I'll post up a pic or two when I get back in town. I could use some schooling on this stuff.

Mark
__________________
''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools,
because they have to say something.'' - Plato

http://www.scaldeddog.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:38 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default

This is what the REEB looks like with gears. I'll put the list prices just for reference.

Starting Parts:
  • M980 XTR right shifter - $109
  • M785 XT front cranks (2x10) - $270
  • M786 XT Shadow+ GS mid-cage rear derailleur - $89
  • CS-M771 XT 11-36 10-speed cassette - $61
  • SRAM PC-1051 chain - $26
Modifications:
Gear inch range is 21.7 to 78.8.

Name:  reeb_geared1.jpg
Views: 37
Size:  86.4 KB

Name:  reeb_geared2.jpg
Views: 35
Size:  139.5 KB
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna

Last edited by DaveInDenver; 08-14-2016 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:41 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default

I prefer to run the Wolf Tooth stainless rings, which last a whole lot longer but all I had was a 32 tooth one and it was just slightly too big and rubbed my chain stay with these cranks. I have a set of 3x M760 XT cranks that I use with the belt drive and those work fine with 32 teeth but the difference is these 2x cranks don't have any way to mount a ring on the outer side of the spider. So the 30 tooth it is.

http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/c...eel-chainrings

If you use an M8000 GS rear derailleur you don't have to do anything to make them work acceptably with up to a 42-tooth rear cog and it will work with both 10 and 11 speeds. Since it's only like $20 more than the side plates or a Goat Link there's no reason to bother starting with a 10-speed derailleur at all if you don't already have one.

http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT-...ear-Derailleur

I was also wrong, Wolf Tooth is making a 45-tooth rear cog for Shimano 11-speed cassettes. I have no experience if it shift alright or not. I use a 40 and Kirsten a 42 tooth with the RADr cage modifications and it works decently. I just about never use the 40 but it's a bail-out in case. In fact I find I generally never use 36 or 32 either, but I've been riding single speed exclusively for about 6 months so I'm used to standing instead of downshifting. :-)

If I was starting new, assuming you can reuse your cranks, the parts list would be:
RD-M8000-GS (rear derailleur) - $91
CS-M8000 (11-42, cassette) - $87
SL-M9000 (right shifter) - $106
PC-X1 (chain) - $31
Wolf Tooth 32-tooth front chainring - $60

That's $375 but with a little shopping it would easy to shave about 20% from these prices and use XT shifter to save another $30. So you'd probably be able to do a 1x conversion for about $300.

Adding the 45-tooth giant cog would be $90 plus then you'd apparently need to run Goat Link 11, which is another $28.

So you're looking at about $400 assuming you can reuse your cranks (which is /probably/ the case).

http://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/c...imano-11-speed

Doing a 32t front and 11-45 would give a gear inch range of 20.5 to 84, which is pretty wide. That's the same granny as 24 front, 34 back. A 22 front, 36 back is 17.7 and to get this would require 28 front and 45 back in 1x. That would drop the top to 73.5 gear inches, the same as 32 front, 13 rear.

Ultimately it doesn't matter because until you run a 50 tooth rear you can't ever get back the big ring on a 2x or 3x configuration. You need at least a 32 tooth chain ring to even come close and a 34 tooth would be better. A 32 front with a 50-10 (SRAM) rear would be darn close to the same range as a 26/38 and 11-36 2x drivetrain.

The problem really going SRAM is the price.
X01 Eagle 50-10 cassette - $360
X01 Eagle rear derailleur - $220
X01 Eagle shifter - $127
X01 Eagle chain - $60
Wolf Tooth chainring - $60

That's $827 and then you still need new hubs with the XD free hub for the cassette.

There is another way to get a 10-tooth rear other than SRAM. One Up makes a little free hub adapter for Stan's and Hope's hubs that makes it possible to run smaller than 11 tooth rear cogs. But this whole thing is a kludge and IMHO not worth the trouble for one tooth. If you need or want the high end for road or downhill, run a 2x front.

http://www.oneupcomponents.com/products/minidriver

FWIW, at 90 RPM running 79 gear inches is 21 MPH and 100 gear inches (34 front, 10 rear) is 27 MPH. So losing the top 2 gears going from 2x10 to 1x10 is a pretty significant jump. In a 3x9 with a (42 front big ring/11 rear smallest) 110 gear inch top 90 RPM is 30 MPH, so going from 3x9 to 1x10/11/12 is losing the top 30% of your range.
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna

Last edited by DaveInDenver; 08-15-2016 at 08:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:25 PM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default

BTW, all my calculations assume a 29x2.2 tire.
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2016, 05:54 AM
ScaldedDog's Avatar
ScaldedDog ScaldedDog is online now
Rising Sun Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 719
Default

Wow, Dave, thanks for all the thought you put into this! I need to digest it, and figure out if my bike needs a simple fix, or if I need to replace expensivenstuff, which makes the 1x option start to look good.

Mark
__________________
''Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools,
because they have to say something.'' - Plato

http://www.scaldeddog.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:41 AM
DaveInDenver's Avatar
DaveInDenver DaveInDenver is offline
Hard Core 4+
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Larimer County
Posts: 7,961
Default

My $0.02 is a conversion to Shimano 1x11 on a bike you own now is potentially worthwhile.

But if the 50-tooth stuff is something that you honestly want I'd put the money towards a new bike. There is a trade-off point where the sum of the individual parts doesn't outweigh the collection and the need for new wheels to get SRAM is that tipping point. It also locks you into SRAM cassettes. Super low gearing might seem important but after a while you don't need it.

Going from 3x to 1x does drop a significant amount of weight and complexity. You don't have to lose much useful range, although you do have to dedicate to either the low side or high side of the range. I think for a MTB it makes sense to run a 1x drivetrain. These extremely wide cassettes are pushing it and at some point the giant cogs negate the benefit. OTOH having physically large gears with lots of chain wrap will reduce wear, so that's a positive.
__________________
'91 Pickup - Imelda
'08 Tacoma TRD - Donna

Last edited by DaveInDenver; 08-15-2016 at 08:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.