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Old 04-12-2009, 02:56 PM
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Default 22R timing chain guides?

Looking at a new project. What all is involved to fix a 22R if the timing chain guides failed? Engine run well prior.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbet View Post
Looking at a new project. What all is involved to fix a 22R if the timing chain guides failed? Engine run well prior.
Was the engine running when they failed? The 22R is an interference engine, so you might need to check valves if the chain broke.

If it's just broken guides and the chain did not break, then as long as you have not worn through the timing cover, it's a pretty straightforward repair. Get a new chain, gears, guides and tensioner, a few gaskets. Doing it the right way will also require a headgasket. It can be done in a weekend if things fall into place.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:57 PM
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I will find out but I don't think the timing chain broke just the tensioner.

Sounds pretty straight forward. Its in a 84 mini. Still need to check the body for filler as there is no visible rust on the body I may be joining the dark side soon.
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Old 04-12-2009, 05:27 PM
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If the timing chain is intact, then you will likely be fine just doing an R&R. It's possible with broken guides or failed tensioner to jump a tooth, but that's not usually going to cause major damage. If you don't take care of a broken guide, the bigger chance to rub the timing cover with the chain until it wears through, which allows oil and coolant to mix. Once rubbing starts you really don't have a ton of miles to mess around.

So get replacement parts, I'm a OEM or equivalent person. Original parts were OSK or Aisin, but no matter IMHO the best option will be made in Japan parts. Note that this will be the OEM style guides, which are nylon.

Some people will recommend metal backed guides.

Depending on what month your engine is made, it may already have a double row timing chain. The switch was 8/84, which would be the later 22R block. The sure way to know is to look on the block at the bottom of the exhaust side and look for a cast flat area that looks like a flattened Mickey Mouse. It'll be right in the middle above the oil pan lip and it's not tiny. You can also measure the deck height, although this is not easy with the engine in place and dressed. But from oil pan lip to deck on '81-'84 blocks is about 0.200" taller than late engines (11.090" vs. 11.280").

Anyway, metal backed guides were standard on the 20R and early 22R. In 1984 Toyota switched to a single row chain with nylon guides, which are noticeably quieter. I replaced my OEM guides with metal backed guides, but they lasted 90K mile less then the original factory parts... So I went with all Toyota boxed parts on the new engine. Like I say, make sure to get Japanese parts if possible. Especially the tensioner, get the OSK or Toyota part here. The chain is expensive, so Engnbldr or 22RE.com are better options there. The gears, again the aftermarket is fine. If the Japanese parts are too rich for your blood, then US-made or at least Taiwan for sure. Avoid the parts from China and India if you plan to keep the truck more than 6 months.

The right way to do the job is to pull the head. If your timing guides or tensioner are broken, then you will have to pull the pan, too. You need to get the old parts out of there to keep from clogging the oil pump pickup.

But it's my thinking that the OE HG has a service life that's similar to the timing parts, so the FSM way of pulling the head is I think the right way. Don't skimp, get a good HG.

FWIW, Toyota sells a master gasket kit for the 22R and that's the way to go IMO. It's complete, main seals, valve guides, the whole deal if you're refreshing the engine. But if you're doing it on the cheap, I would stick with at least a factory HG and the timing cover gaskets. I used Fel-Pro timing cover gaskets the first time I did the chain (the metal backed time) and they weeped after about 10K miles. This time I got the Toyota gaskets and they are dry as can be after 22K now.

Also consider a new water pump and oil pump.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:11 PM
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Think he current owner mentioned oil/coolant mixing so I might be in for more than a quick fix. I asked if valves/pistons connected, he said no.
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Old 04-13-2009, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
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Think he current owner mentioned oil/coolant mixing so I might be in for more than a quick fix. I asked if valves/pistons connected, he said no.
This sounds pretty typical for broken guides (or just that you need a head gasket). Don't worry that you are in uncharted territory here. Engnbldr has timing covers that work and are 1/10th the cost of Aisin from Toyota. As long as the oil/coolant mixing hasn't been going on for a long time you should not be in trouble. The problem would be ruining the crank bearings or cam bearings if enough coolant dilutes the oil. Just take one step at a time, though.
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:29 AM
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The problem would be ruining the crank bearings or cam bearings if enough coolant dilutes the oil.
This was my concern
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:43 AM
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Your concern is well placed... though not necessarily just for coolant and oil. If the timing cover was worn through from broken guides, you may have additional damage to the engine - the aluminum (and steel ) has to go somewhere. After my experience with the '93, I think any time I replace a 22RE timing chain where the above was the case (except the timing cover was not yet worn through), I will pull a bearing cap or three to check things out. The ones on the '93 were scored, but the crank was not yet damaged.

Shards of aluminum.

It was sad, too, because there wasn't much ridging on the cylinders and most of the hone marks were still visible. I overhauled it completely.

I could have gotten away with just replacing the bearings though, were I a (short term) cheep bastid, and didn't want to drive it for another 200K miles.

Be SURE to check the head and the block deck. If the HG was close to failing and the PO didn't keep fresh coolant in the thing, the block deck can easily be corroded due to electrolysis etc. Of course if you have to deck it, you need to do the full meal deal anyway (which is not really expensive).

Then you will have a dandy fresh '84 just waiting for an EFI conversion!!
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:08 AM
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my goal of this truck would be just to DD it and avoid the extra miles and fuel for the 80. Well hoping less fuel than the 80? So I'm hopping for a cheap fix or I may pass on the truck.

I'll also be more comfortable selling the 60 if I have another running vehicle in the stable.
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Old 04-13-2009, 07:23 AM
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Even a full overhaul on a 22RE ain't that expensive... especially if you just swap in a decent used longblock from Jim's Used Toyota Truck Parts.

C'mon, you know you want to join the dark side...

We are just giving you the worst case scenario. And even that ain't too bad. EFI will give just a bit more power and better mileage FWIW.
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